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Announcement - READ

Post  Shar on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:02 am

I have got a great deal of feedback on the event i did this Saturday. Far more negative than positive it seems. Before i make this announcement i want to at least explain the "why" behind things. i am addressing these in order of how many people thought it was a problem.

1. "The ending was rushed" - The reason i had to rush at the end was because i had so many people going different ways. I had to leave the group many, many times during that event because people wanted to run ahead or lag behind. I cannot be in two places at once even in the DM client. This is why i keep telling people "stay with the group". If you leave the group with-ought telling me AND getting a response it can be event breaking.

2. "Not enough attention was being given to clues" - I am very sorry about this.. I had so many tells and DM channel chat going my way that i couldn't even see half the text that was on the screen. i just got overwhelmed.


3. "PC X was upstaging me" - That's IC and not my fault. take it up with them.


4. This last one is actually something none said but rather something that in hindsight i did wrong. everyone was fleeing at the end and two pc's wouldn't leave but rather stayed and stumbled on someone who was icly dead and had been hidden out of the way.

To me this was the point that the plot truly broke. Staying behind was supposed to equate to an inescapable death situation and i went and got soft-hearted about it. those pc's were never supposed to go to those places or find that pc who icly is very much dead. That was my fault and i am sorry.


As for my announcement.

I am asking for a conciseness on the future of my DM status. I will abide by whatever the result of this poll is and will not vote in it myself. This is your chance to decide the future course of events here in an actual democratic DM Election.
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Re: Announcement - READ

Post  kain delvin on Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:37 am

Ummmm, yea. I had no complaints as a former DM, i know how hectic events can get when you have a large and diverse group all trying to do somethig.

in response to your reasons:

1: aye, thats why i tried staying with the group as much as possible, but eventually just IC'ly it wasn't feasable anymore. I recomend next time you run an event, either limit it in player size some how, such as *cough* highering the mercs *cough* or some other means that only a limited amount of people could do. You can always run multiple events, but it's generaly easier to maintain events with smaller groups.

OR, bring along other dm's to help out. It can be a life saver if you can ask that dm over there to follow one group while you go with the other. It cuts down on the demand.

2. Yea, that was my only complaint...had a will save that never developed into anything dm driven, i had to take it into my own hands what the result of it turned out to be. It ended in great fun, just was weird trying to figure out ok, am i brain washed, am i just greedy, am i fully functioning, what. But in the end, I enjoyed the rp i came up with for that.

3. Ummm...someone's upstaging someone ic'ly? What? That shouldn't even be a complaint. If your upstaged IC'ly, then go get your revenge IC'ly, i know malah did and it created for some drama that i'm sure will bite her in the Azz sooner rather than later.

4. It's all well and good to be nice to players, but if realisticly they shouldn't survive, IE there fighting some ancient abomination of infinite power with nothing but a stick of metal and prayers, then they shouldn't survive. But your human, and we dont want to be mean to those we like so i understand.

So there, thats my response to all this. One event gone rogue doesn't mean you should retire. It does mean you should practice more with smaller groups, but DM'ing is an art, as much as writing or painting or juggling, and whats-his-face didn't paint picaso in a day. Keep at it, learn with smaller groups then grow, and stay on. Cause over all, i thought the event was awesome and allowed for us to do what we IC'ly would have, instead of constraining us to a set path that, while easier to manage, would have ruined a lot of rp.

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Re: Announcement - READ

Post  Valerion on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:17 am


I apologize for this post to be chaotic or not easy to understand, I really have problems writing a large text in english, without messing up a lot of context.

1.It is true the ending was rushed, but there is the problem I see, of course you are but one person you cannot be everywhere, the problem is also, not all people can always stay with the group. As an example, when things have higher priorities for other PCs, or if they do not realize certain things, or if they split up ICly to search something, they get away.
On the other hand, YEAH maybe telling you via tell would be better before splitting but not everyone can warn another one in time before things happen, due to how others act or the speed of typing they are capable off.

This is the big problem with being a DM/having an event where the players have more than 3 ways they can go, you need to have a thin red line to follow but always must be flexible enough to manage either two or three groups, or get them back together through something they all concentrate on.
Too different groups often do not work together or split up unless they have a common goal, making an "Avatar of shadow" to fight can get even Chaotic evil and lawful good together because both either fight together or die for sure.
(The enemy of my enemy....you know the phrase)


As a small recommendation for another time, you could do one group after another, or send a shout as in "Everbody in the event please freeze so I can manage stuff". It would take time, annoying waiting mayhap but it would reshape a hasty event back into some nice RP and steady flowing event.
I for my personal part rather wait a bit oocly and have an awesome event, than to rush on and then have no possiblity to RP my character the right way because I had no time to think his/her actions over.


2.
About the hints, well, you are one person and cannot handle everything, again something where I would say, get the smaller group, tell them to wait please, tend to the others, tend to the smaller ones again. But well everyone gets overwhelmed once in a while, I should not have been so hard on you because of this.

3. What means PC was upstaging me?

4. Well, in that case you could have just pulled the ending through, I was well aware that staying could kill the character, but she (Adrastia) was too stubborn to go, she rather would have fought and weakened the thing in there till the end than leaving without a fight, even if that means she loses her life, all her Aasimar blood her divine power, yadda yadda and so on.
Paladins...heh, big bunch of idiots but the crusades are so much fun Very Happy
(Yes I even had a few final prayers ready for Adrastia before the moment of dieing, I almost always have because with that character I always carry around the chance of permadeath and that I do conciously. If I see the situation fitting I even sacrifice characters that I played a long time to have an epic ending to an epic character.)

The only thing I think you could have done better there, is doing better hints, yes the shadow was slowly raising, some formless shadows came up and shadow spikes stoke the characters, but there was no reaction to their actions, shining holy symbols, turning. Nothing written that would have indicated "What you are doing is fruitless, RUN". At least this is how I saw it, which may leave out some details because of the 16 hours workshift I had that day.

About the death of Tsully, well, a short message with "He is not there" or "Only his corpse lies on the floor" would have been enough, they most likely would just have grabbed the body and teleported or ran away.
Or the fact that rubble blocks the way could have forced them to flee to the others. As already said its not always logical or easy to comprehend how characters act, but not all would flee with another group (perhaps because they think for an example, that they have to hold the enemy off. So others can flee.

I am not trying to criticize you, but maybe plant some ideas how you could do it differently another time in a different event.
Also I want to add, this was the first event, I personally disliked of your events, the FIRST, and everyone has a bad day once in a while, so screw that, I do no doubt your capability of being a DM because of ONE event that was crappy in my eyes.

So long, my two cents.
Be well, game on, and Shar, it would be a loss to lose you as a DM, still, when you drop DMship, it will be a great victory for those who gain you as a more often appearing player.


P.S. Though one thing I must add to Kain_delvins post

4. It's all well and good to be nice to players, but if realisticly they shouldn't survive, IE there fighting some ancient abomination of infinite power with nothing but a stick of metal and prayers, then they shouldn't survive. But your human, and we dont want to be mean to those we like so i understand.

"Yes, if they would fight such a thing they may not survive, or maybe would depending on how strong it is and if it is really an ancient abomination of INFINITE power, it depends on the whole of it *I do not have Shar's idea/plan about it*, and on what they do, as an example a hint how things work or react to something, can be REALLY helpful to determine the next step, which was just missing that day in my eyes at least.
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Re: Announcement - READ

Post  BobbyBrown15 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:29 am

Upstage means to steal the show, take priority from every one else.

I was not a part of the event, thats the only thing i have against it but i can still give a word on the matter. As you said you were rushed and maybe took on more people than you could handle at the time, this is a mistake people commonly make, it does not make you a bad DM. If anything it shows your limits if you wish to stick to them or improve them. You were also short on time as you said, if hat was the case the even may have been better done at another time unless this was the only time it could be done at all. We are only human. Do not let this 1 event doubt your abilities as a DM.
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Re: Announcement - READ

Post  Shadowtim3 on Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:40 am

Now that I know the reasoning behind it, I understand why it was rushed. But I assumed it was due to the Shar's time limit, at the time. It doesn't bother me either way. From my point of view it was sloppy. And now I know why. In retrospect, though it was a good rp, even if it did go in 50 directions it seemed. I know I'm exaggerating, but the point remains. It got hectic and out of control.
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Re: Announcement - READ

Post  Animayhem on Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:48 am

Concidering the odds you were up against Shar you did well.

On the DM side I would suggest the following:

I would maybe limit it to a two part so players involved can have a chance to get used to things and you can get a feel of how people react to the situations and each other.

This was a contiuation of a plot started months ago and there were only a few who knew the whole story. Maybe a brief synopsis of what has gone before so people would have a general idea. Charia was on so Iwas able to get people up to speed slightly. This would have maybe reduced the number of tells. You could have also on the shout channel given a breif summary. Then allowed for any questions by players over the shout/party channel especially since we have some non-native english speakers.

Mandate that all who wish to particpate must be in party to help you keep track. If you feel a need to change or party split, you could do what Val suggested and make an ooc announcement.

Allow players some time to rp and get their bearings. In reference to Tsully and Charia they had an established frienship so it was natural for Charia to seek him out. She could have found his body and raised him.


On the players side:

Party when a dm event, xp will be adjusted at end of the event.

Again keep this in mind.

kain delvin wrote:

Flaunting evil: If your massacring innocents, expect that paladin over there to smite you.

Flaunting good: If your that paladin denouncing all the evils of the world, expect that evil over there to stab you in the back to shut you up.

Basically, If your hostile(even indirectly) to someone, they have the right to retaliate. If it's questionable, that person should ask a dm first or better yet, give the warning, but it's not necessary. That's the dangers of being extremists, the other extremes will kill you.

Very valid points and were brought out during the event.

Rushing around. Running ahead of your party not a good thing unless maybe announced in game like " I will scout ahead."

A bit of patience with rp as mentioned some are slower typers than others. Granted we may get excited in the heat of rp but take the time to read what was said.

Flexibility: This is so important especially in events. Granted we all have ideas of how we want to play things out, but like life go with the flow and try and adjust to the situation and players rather than trying to make things go your way.

Please be kind to the DM's Smile Try and keep tells to a minimum. If something bothers you then send it in a pm.

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Re: Announcement - READ

Post  Shar on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:26 pm

Well, Thanks everyone.

Everyone involved seems to have voted already so barring something unforeseen part2 of this will be on saturday the 9th at the same time.
I will however break parts of it up into smaller things during the week for those on.
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