Rules for Vampires and Lycans

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Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  Elgate on Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:41 pm

Obviously Vampirism and Lycanthropy should be a very real risk when battling the infected, but I think we need rules when it comes to PvP.

ICly vampires and Lycans are not going to be all that friendly, and may be very easy to provoke into a fight. But I think there needs to be rules on how these fights should happen, as these can have a huge affect on the other character. Just as you ask permission to do something permanent to another character (Death and injury, for example) I think Lycans and Vampires need to send a tell to their possible opponent, warning them of the risks and asking whether they want to risk possible infection with PvP or would rather RP the fight out so as to avoid the fight. Saying 'but that defeats the point!' is like saying that any time a character dies they should stay dead, and if another char attacks you in such a way that realistically you would have lost a limb, you're suddenly less mobile and need to alter your clothing.

This goes for beta especially, as there are many character breaking bugs and glitches that still need to be fixed, and inflicting that on someone else without warning them of it isn't fair.

((As a heads up, I'm not complaining about Grace's own Lycanthropy. I'm cool with that, but I know many players that won't be happy with other players spreading the curse freely))
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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  Animayhem on Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:44 pm

I agree as being a lycan or vamp changes you. NOT all people want to be either. We are lucky this place offers such things and should not be abused.
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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  saadow on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:51 pm

I have a very simple opinion on this and the matter should find resolution with a few modifications to the methods by which players interact.

The system can deaden a variety of blows, but the ultimate design, I feel, is consent. Consent and representative consequences are the way to go. There should be consequence for both the attacker and the defender.

Consent, I feel, should extend to major character changes or transformations, much like you have options for kidnap/mutilation and other such things, I feel permanent death risk from pvp and major character changes should be added to this list.

People dislike loosing soul runes, and typically, a player has the ability to avoid a situation which would invoke them to loose one. Loosing one because a player decided to waylay another character he or she didn't like is not reasonable. Such detriment should be in the hands of DMs or the system-governed enemies only. If I may make a suggestion?

I have seen a subdual damage system with this hcr system on Thay, a server that uses a similar style of system to what we use here. If you simply make it so that a PC or PC's henchman who kills another PC doesn't cause that PC to die in the traditional respect, even in excessive damage scenarios, and instead "incapacitate" them, you open players to capture RP, and give players an option so that if communication fails, they're protected. Consider every point past 0 to be a round of time "incapacitated" so you can increase the time to a cap determined by the character's level. (Higher level characters should not be incapacitated as long as newer characters, because of their hardiness and experience alone.) Perhaps modify the length of time based on constitution? Just a thought.

I also feel that if a player is higher level and has the experience to do so, RPing with the lower level person they're going to beat and giving them a fair chance to fight back in some out-of-the-box manner is smart and fair. Give them a feeling of having a fighting chance, levels aren't supposed to be a huge degree of separation, an instant-kill trap may be just as effective against you as it would be against me.

Prime example, a Vampire RPer had attacked my paladin because he got in his way, plain and simple, my paladin played to his character and so did the vampire. Not only did he ask my consent to be turned but when I didn't provide it, he respected it, but I also accepted getting beat up quite a bit in the process. He then gave me an opportunity to fight back by using my holy symbol to repulse him. Wether this is internal fobia or an actual game mechanic is irrelevant: it was good RP.

Now, some of what else happened--I feel a miscommunication--resulted in a big problem for another player and quite some time trying to fix it. But things like the scripted protection against forced changes and permadeath from pc's would have prevented much of the problem itself. Mind you, we were able to fix the problem, and system wise, the problem -can- and -will- be fixable in the near future.



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The ability of a vampire to rp an attack and a player to defend.

Post  Silver Oak on Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:28 am

My thoughts, are as follows. Any holy symbol will repulse the vampire. No vampire may travel or be about in sunlight. Any Vampire foolish enough to be seen would cause EVERYONE to rise up and hunt it to final death. This is PVP because of the scripting. No PvP will occur with out both players in agreement. Untill such time as the scripting is agreed upon by all players no more attacks may occur with out a DM present and the complete agreement of all partys. Vampires still can not travel over running water...............All puplic buildings would have garlic at the entrys and in commen rooms. Permission is required by the owner of the building for a vampire to enter. If a Vampire is caught in a spell that is sunlight they are destroyed........period final death. If npcs or pcs find the coffin and stake the vampire then that vampire is destroyed no save and all others are turned back to human that have been turned.

Werewolfs. This is differnt, as I have not seen it used as a negative. The pcs I have seen so far that are were wolf seem to use it as a shapeshift only no loss of control rampage ect. I would love to hear from the weres on how this works. Is it more a tribal thing? instead of a curse/ See above for pvp.


Thanks fore the space to make my thoughts public.


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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  Elgate on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:13 am

DnD Vampire Lore:
Repelling a Vampire: Vampires cannot tolerate the strong odor of garlic and will not enter an area laced with it. Similarly, they recoil from a mirror or a strongly presented holy symbol. These things don’t harm the vampire—they merely keep it at bay. A recoiling vampire must stay at least 5 feet away from a creature holding the mirror or holy symbol and cannot touch or make melee attacks against the creature holding the item for the rest of the encounter. Holding a vampire at bay takes a standard action.
Vampires are also unable to cross running water, although they can be carried over it while resting in their coffins or aboard a ship.
They are utterly unable to enter a home or other building unless invited in by someone with the authority to do so. They may freely enter public places, since these are by definition open to all.

Slaying a Vampire: Reducing a vampire’s hit points to 0 or lower incapacitates it but doesn’t always destroy it (see the note on fast healing). However, certain attacks can slay vampires. Exposing any vampire to direct sunlight disorients it: It can take only a single move action or attack action and is destroyed utterly in the next round if it cannot escape. Similarly, immersing a vampire in running water robs it of one-third of its hit points each round until it is destroyed at the end of the third round of immersion. Driving a wooden stake through a vampire’s heart instantly slays the monster. However, it returns to life if the stake is removed, unless the body is destroyed. A popular tactic is to cut off the creature’s head and fill its mouth with holy wafers (or their equivalent).


Vampires are always evil, which causes characters of certain classes to lose some class abilities. In addition, certain classes take additional penalties.

Clerics: Vampire clerics lose their ability to turn undead but gain the ability to rebuke undead. This ability does not affect the vampire’s controller or any other vampires that a master controls. A vampire cleric has access to two of the following domains: Chaos, Destruction, Evil, or Trickery.
Sorcerers and Wizards: Vampire sorcerers and wizards retain their class abilities, but if a character has a familiar other than a rat or bat, the link between them is broken, and the familiar shuns its former companion. The character can summon another familiar, but it must be a rat or bat.

More coming on Lycanthropy- although check out the wiki page as well: http://argentumregio.wikia.com/wiki/Lycanthropes
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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  X_CaLiBrE on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:15 am

All right...gonna try to make this short and sweet. I was the other player in the vampire encounter the other day whose character was changed. Let me first say I have never been and will likely never be a fan of PvP. I've NEVER seen it turn out well. I think a group of good RPers can do much better acting it out. But I have a special pet peeve when it comes to using PvP attacks on defenseless characters. While it is true the vampire's player in question did ask, I was trying to tell him that I didn't approve and didn't find it very sporting but that I guess I had little choice if he chose to attack me. Apparently this wasn't strong enough and he chose to attack and, needless to say, pummeled my fifth level into a change in one hit, almost killing him. In retrospect I should have put my foot down hard and told him to leave me alone, but I had tried up to this point to not be threatening and even approach it with a sense of humor...my bad. But now I have a screwed up character that ODA tried to fix up. He no longer takes sunlight damage, etc, but now cannot get more than 1xp for foes that should be appropriate to his level. The thing that led me to not get vehement about my refusal was the assurance from the vampire's player that "it would be easily fixable at any temple" which turned out to be not so. As a new player, I didn't know any better. Not so short and sweet as I had hoped, but I would prefer a system where these things are RPed out, otherwiseI envision the same issues I've seen in the past: a focus shift to making stronger PvP characters and losing the focus on diversity and good RP. 'Nuff said.

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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  DM_Dekkar on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:54 am

I agree with the various statements listed here, while this is a heavy RP server it should also have the consent of others if you wish to be turned. Again, there still needs to be some overview of the various issues brought up by you great players. I am sure in time, they will be corrected for the betterment of the server.

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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  GM_ODA on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:37 am

Sometimes I treat this server too much like a pnp D&D game.

I like to think of the server as being an extension of my home. My home has long been a place where friends can gather for a good Role Playing Game. There are similarities and contrariwise between the two - of course, that there is a RPG event involved is the same, but in my RL home ONLY FRIENDS AND THEIR POLITE GUESTS attend. Here on the server, anyone can visit and that can mean that some lack that camaraderie that keeps our RL games on amicable terms. I can see that strangers to one another on the server may be inclined to RP that can be detrimental to the RP of others'.

During beta test we have been fairly lax about things in an effort to get tested all that needed testing. We can see that the vampires need re-vamping and I have been accumulating notes for some time on the matter. Feel free to air your thoughts here.

As a RP purist, part of me wants to rule that a surprise attack such as an assassination attempt could be RP'd without prelude, sans announcement. Among earnest friends in my RL home, that would not cause problems assuming the RP was there, but online, among strangers, I see a callousness that can spoil all fun.

This really IS all about the fun.

How would all feel about a ban on PVP for levels lower than 10?

Ban on PVP if level difference of more than n levels?

We shall be reviewing input from the PLAYERS and DMS so get your two cents in. Scripted locks on actions and repercussions are fairly easy to do.

Be well. Game on.
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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  Elgate on Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:03 am

Lycanthropes- RPing alignment of there werebeast.

Were-animals have the alignment associated with them, not the actually alignment of the animal (So 'noble' perceived animals, like lions, bears, eagles are good, while 'sinister' animals, like wolves, rats, snakes, are evil).

Natural lycanthropes (those born as a lycan) should be of the alignment of their animal. The 'curse' is so much a part of them and comes 'naturally' to them, that they know no other life in which to refused their alignment. It's just what they are.


Newly afflicted lycans will likely be of dual nature. On their first change, they will loose themselves to the nature of the beast, and have no control or awareness. (In DnD this is often done by handing control of the character to a DM, who will stick to the alignment without bias. However I think we just have to trust players to do this properly Smile ) Good lycans will seek to avoid people and will try to avoid harming non-evil sentient beings- but will still act hostilely to evil beings and hunt prey. Neutral Lycans will seek out wilderness, but will still attack people who cross their paths- much like a normal wild animal might, but with added anger and hostility (Not malice and joy of killing). Evil Lycans will instead seek out people to kill, often heading towards civilisation and locations they know people to be- often meaning friends and family.

After waking a Lycan should role a wisdom check (DC 15). If he succeeds, he becomes aware of his lycanthropy and can work on controlling it- if not, the cycle repeats again next full moon.

After this, once they become aware, newly afflicted Lycans are unbalanced. If hurt, they will suffer an overwhelming rage and need to roll a control shape check to avoid changing to ANIMAL form. (Not hybrid). http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Control_Shape (Those who aren't aware of their lycanthropy can do the same, but it just means if they fail the roll, they loose control of their actions. Those who are aware can attempt to control their actions, although they will still be inclined towards their werebeast alignment, and keep rolling a control shape attempt until they succeed).

Each time ANIMAL form is assumed, the character must roll a will save (15+ number of times in animal form) or PERMANENTLY assume the alignment of their werebeast in all forms.





As for PvP a scripted ban might be too much, as some may feel that they are happy to PvP if it calls for it- Saadow's suggestion of being 'K.O'ed rather than killed in PvP sounds like a good idea. I think it should be a rule that PvP between characters with more than... 10 lvl differences, should be given clear OOC consent on both sides that it is the best way to resolve IC RP. For players with lvls closer to each other, one server I played had a three IC warning system, and a OOC warning system- Meaning that if you're character would attack, he must give three clear warnings ICly (e.g "I'm warning you, back off, Or I'll make you back off" ((OOC Tell: My char would respond hostiley to this- if you don't want to PvP, say now))"You're pushing you're luck- Keep at it, and I -will- retaliate" "That's it- You asked for it!" *Pauses for response- then PvP attacks if neccessary.*

Personally I think this server is far better suited to RP attacks, but sometimes PvP attacks are necessary. I would also suggest a rule that if a character is beaten until badly wounded by another player, a script kicks in to stop the fight briefly and allow for a chance to yield.

As for lvls below 10, yes, I think there should be a PvP ban.
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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  DM Drachen on Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:36 pm

Elgate wrote:
As for PvP a scripted ban might be too much, as some may feel that they are happy to PvP if it calls for it- Saadow's suggestion of being 'K.O'ed rather than killed in PvP sounds like a good idea. I think it should be a rule that PvP between characters with more than... 10 lvl differences, should be given clear OOC consent on both sides that it is the best way to resolve IC RP. For players with lvls closer to each other, one server I played had a three IC warning system, and a OOC warning system- Meaning that if you're character would attack, he must give three clear warnings ICly (e.g "I'm warning you, back off, Or I'll make you back off" ((OOC Tell: My char would respond hostiley to this- if you don't want to PvP, say now))"You're pushing you're luck- Keep at it, and I -will- retaliate" "That's it- You asked for it!" *Pauses for response- then PvP attacks if neccessary.*

Personally I think this server is far better suited to RP attacks, but sometimes PvP attacks are necessary. I would also suggest a rule that if a character is beaten until badly wounded by another player, a script kicks in to stop the fight briefly and allow for a chance to yield.

As for lvls below 10, yes, I think there should be a PvP ban.

I don't understand the 10 levels thing. If someone could explain to me more about that, and the reasoning. If conflict occurs between characters of any levels and escalates to such a point, that PvP is acceptable and makes sense. At least, that's my thinking on it. I'm probably just overlooking and being tired, but what it sounds like is no PvP between characters of a 10 level difference.

As for KO'd instead of killed, please please please. I cannot tell anyone how many times I've seen a character say something along the lines of; "So and So killed me." Which makes absolutely no sense to me, considering you're alive and walking about.
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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  Animayhem on Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:01 pm

PVP as long as RP'D PROPERLY should be fine at any level. Do not force the issue. Parties involved need to move on to other things.
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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  DM Drachen on Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:16 pm

What Animayhem said. I think that's really all we need. I don't think we need any sort of level ban, specifics for lycanthropes, or anything. If you don't want PvP, don't get involved in conflict that could escalate to such. If it doesn't make sense, don't do it. If it's overly silly, don't do it. If it's borderline, you probably shouldn't do it. If someone is acting overly silly, doing things that don't make sense, report it. I think all of that should be enough.

As for asking permission, turning on dislike should be fair enough warning. Your characters have legs, they can run.
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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  BobbyBrown15 on Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:01 am

some like to chase however drachen, and some prefer to attack from being unseen, being disliked does not give enough warning if the person uses stealth to get to you and you have no means of countering it.
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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  Shar on Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:05 am

it seems like the real peeve here isn't so much pvp as it is being turned by a lycan or vamp pc without any desire to do so.

I can understand where this comes from as if you wanted that to happen (or even were ok with it ) you would agree. perhaps the best thing would be to make the lycan / vamp turning ability's a special attack? This way you still only can turn the same number of people (wigit could vanish) but if someone didn't want to be afflicted they wouldn't have to be.
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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  saadow on Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:40 am

It's early in the morning, so I'll groggily detail one counterpoint for ODA

I'm not for banning pvp for 10 and below, because administering it could cripple some characters (like mine) from acting as their character dictates. Same with higher level characters.

The fact we got attacked wasn't unacceptable, what happened was a miscommunication of what was expected

In fact, really, I instigated the combat situation technically by throwing holy water to see him while he was invisible. So me getting beat up was my just deserts, though the difficulty and problems resulting from the turn seem to call for some tweaking.

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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  DM Drachen on Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:07 am

BobbyBrown15 wrote:some like to chase however drachen, and some prefer to attack from being unseen, being disliked does not give enough warning if the person uses stealth to get to you and you have no means of countering it.

You give obvious hints and clues, foreshadowing this to the other character. Dislike isn't enough, obviously. You need role play beforehand.
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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  Animayhem on Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:16 am

DM Drachen wrote:
BobbyBrown15 wrote:some like to chase however drachen, and some prefer to attack from being unseen, being disliked does not give enough warning if the person uses stealth to get to you and you have no means of countering it.

You give obvious hints and clues, foreshadowing this to the other character. Dislike isn't enough, obviously. You need role play beforehand.

I agree as not everyone looks at the screen when it says dislike. Not everyone can detect high stealthy characters. In one world they have a script which notifies of an assassination or slaver attack.
If either is in the area you get a something feels wrong message, you have no idea who or where they are coming from but it gives you some time to put up a defense or try and get to a safe area.

I wonder if this code could be linked ot the lycan and vamp class.
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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  DM Drachen on Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:37 am

That sounds like a good idea, Animayhem. That would take care of that issue.
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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  Elgate on Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:07 pm

Back on the topic of Lycans and werewolves what is the ruling on alignments?

For DnD Vampires are evil. Full stop. Doesn't matter what you were before, on returning to 'unlife' you become evil.
Lycans are always there werebeast alignment in animal form. (not sure about hybrid form). In DnD they had to roll a will save (dc 15 + number of times they taken on animal form) against taken on that alignment permanently in all forms.

(Not sure how to work with hybrid form, and most dnd sources speak of taking on animal form during the full moon, not hybrid. This would make the will check all the more threatening, as it was only a matter of time before even the strongest wills were broken)
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Turn of a pc into another creature

Post  Silver Oak on Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:27 pm

I have read all of the above and in most cases we seem to have drifted from the main issue. I don't care if you think it's cool to be a vampire. You dont have the right no matter how many levels to take all the effort I have put into playing on this server and throw it away. No pvp if both don't agree to the action.
I want a clear answer here not this or that. I am a player here and I want a ruling. So I can chose if I stay or go. I have no issue with pvp if both agree, but if thats not the case in turning of vamp or were wolf...........with out a dm overseeing it and complete agreement, then tell me now.



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Re: Rules for Vampires and Lycans

Post  Animayhem on Sun Apr 21, 2013 8:39 pm

Silver Oak wrote:I have read all of the above and in most cases we seem to have drifted from the main issue. I don't care if you think it's cool to be a vampire. You dont have the right no matter how many levels to take all the effort I have put into playing on this server and throw it away. No pvp if both don't agree to the action.
I want a clear answer here not this or that. I am a player here and I want a ruling. So I can chose if I stay or go. I have no issue with pvp if both agree, but if thats not the case in turning of vamp or were wolf...........with out a dm overseeing it and complete agreement, then tell me now.
Silver Oak

I can understand your concern Silver and hope you do not leave. What occurs on another world I play, if someone wishes to assassinate some one (there are no lycans or vamps there who can turn peeps)
Usually an explaination would be sent to a dm outlining the rp reasons why. If agreed the dm and assassin woud come on together for what ever time and hope their quarry was there. The quarry would not get dislike but if attacked and killed a dm would stand by. The attacked would have a right to question, especially if it seemed out of the blue. However any time my character was assassinated there was actually rp in game to support it.

I think the overall theme here is no matter what you play lycan, vamp, paladin etc this is a live world with many peeps and visions of their life here in fantasy land. Please try not and get heavy handed or power tripping here. Just because I am does not give me cart blanche to do what ever and not care about others reactions. Yes stay in character but do modify to meet the character of the person you are rping with.
Ic yes the character may have a summoned or a race I do not care for but ooc I need to concider their feelings as well and not make them feel grieved and punished for what they are or how they react.

This is a game people only a game. *peace*

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