Can PCs become Gods?

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Can PCs become Gods?

Post  GM_ODA on Thu May 16, 2013 2:57 pm

To the Original Poster - NOTHING personal here. It was and is a very good question. We handle it differently here is the 'in a nut-shell' response.

It was recently posted

Been pondering this for a while ... how the hells does a cleric ever ascend to deity-hood? Same goes for most religious classes, Ur-priests even more so.. think about it.. clerics get their power from deities and the domains and such spells come from the deity they represent. Now.. the deity sponsors them into deity-hood, which the cleric then is it's own deity.

As with the rules of Ao and general rules considering deities they must pray to the over-god, not to the deity they once represented, however they would not be considered subservient to their sponsor. My question is.. how can the Cleric or other such religious class function in it's old manner when the rules no longer apply when they ascend to deity-hood themselves?

Something to clarify ...
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

My response was rather firm it read:

NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER. Gods are not mortals, mortals are not gods. I find it a joke when a mortal becomes a god. Why would anyone ever worship any god if they could become one themselves? Gods are separate, different, NOT MORTAL and not something a mortal will ever become.

I know Forgotten Realms has had such events... this is not FR ... I just don't allow such foolishness. By the FR rules all you basically have to do is cow some peons into worshiping you and that is just trash. In such cases anyone with three levels would just go beat on Kobolds until they got the desired effect, and soon everyone lv 3 and up would be a god.

So for reference of all PLAYERs & DMs here,

Mortal beings never become gods in this setting. Sainthood is the cap beyond which no mortal travels.

As regards the link offered - we don't do it that way.

The offered article is not cannon, and poorly edited, I cannot fathom how one might '... you may parry favor to the gods and they will grant you godhood as a gift.' I think they may have meant 'curry', but why would a god want to let anyone into their exclusive club? Especially some *gasps* mere mortal? For 'godhood' to be passed around makes it sound more like a sexually transmitted disease rather than anything desirable.


The article suggests that merely having enough creatures worship the mortal could make the difference. If that were the case, nothing would exist. If you posit that god or gods created everything, then worshipers would have had to exist before they and the world could be created. Now, if you will pardon me I must attend a dance with an infinite number of Angels held on the head of a really exclusive pin. [blatant pun I could NOT resist]

Mass Genocide as a means to god-hood? Um, which god or gods will stand idle and allow their creatures to be slaughtered for the benefit of such a presuming mortal (even if it were possible)? Proposing that god-hood can be bought for the cost of a million gold and a Wish spell to have a nuke detonated on some medieval kingdom's capitol city is just making it tawdry cheap in my humble opinion.

Anytime it gets suggested that a mortal or group of mortals might slay a god I always recollect an article by Leonard Lakofka ... a few excerpts follow:

“My 52nd-level Fighter/43rd-level Magic-User/27th-level Thief has the Wand of Orcus in one hand, the Rod of Asmodeus in the other and carries the Staff of Zeus between his legs! Besides that, I have just acquired the heads of all the Polynesian Gods, had them shrunken, and now they are this necklace I’m wearing! I can hardly wait for The Dragon [magazine] to print another pantheon so that my best character can kill them off!!”
Sound like a Jim Ward article? Alas, just about every player in what I’d like to call “Circus D&D” has all of these trophies, and more! Why does it happen? For a few reasons. The DM is too much of a nice guy. The DM does not give the Deity all of his/her/its powers. The players abuse the books and spells and the DM lets them get away with it. The magic items available are too powerful and too easily acquired, and so on.

FROM “How to make a pantheon you can have faith in! : Leomund's Tiny Hut by Lenard Lakofka. DRAGON Magazine 36

As regards PC & Deity encounters...

The Dungeon Master must become the Deity. To this end he/she must realize that a Deity acts according to four major principles: alignment, intelligence, ego and power. To begin with a Deity will not tolerate some punk getting smart with him/her/it regardless of alignment similarity! A God’s ego should make a player character’s dim by comparison!
Simply do not take any garbage from smart PCs when you are playing a God! At the very least, just leave and give them nothing for their trouble! Even if Gated in, a Deity need not stay around and take abuse from a player character.
A Deity almost always has an intelligence of 17 plus, and usually it is 20 or more. Thus he will not do something meaningless or stupid when it comes to fighting. He/she/it will select his/her/its best power or ability and manifest it at once. Even if this means wholesale slaughter of player characters. Either the character shows respect (or a healthy fear), or he/she can go to Hell—perhaps very directly! A Deity will never forget its ability to teleport without error and will not hang around when some PC is beating it to within an inch of its Prime Material Life! If a Deity cannot win, it will escape. A Deity will remain true to his/her/its alignment in all dealings. Thus if a player wins a granted wish from Asmodeus, that player had better phrase that wish with unparalleled caution! Thinking you have a Deity “by the short hairs” is an unbelievable mistake! Remember, these beings do not “die” in the classic sense, and almost all will have allies who will help them escape given a proper period of time or beings who will bring them back to the Prime Material by evoking them at a later date. Enmity between a PC and a Deity can be the kiss of ultimate death. Even a lawful good Deity will seek to get back at an evil character who has forced something from him/her.

: Leomund's Tiny Hut by Lenard Lakofka. DRAGON Magazine

I think Lenard had it right. If 'gods' are not so awesomely beyond us mere mortals that we cannot ever fathom them, then they are not really 'gods' after all. It is a delusional cog that aspires to be a crane.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

P.S. Please note, to the Original Poster - THIS WAS A VERY GOOD QUESTION and one that needed asked here especially since we treat god-hood differently than many other servers. THANK YOU FOR ASKING!
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Goodhood

Post  Ronja on Fri May 17, 2013 8:27 am

I agree that no mortal can ever become a diety. However, I just want to add that this does not mean a character (perhaps mentally disturbed) would believe himself or herself to have become a diety, or to try to be. This charater would ofcourse have no godlike powers and would probably be hunted down by witch hunters or others out to get the herretic, but could be fun RP.

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One other thought

Post  Silver Oak on Fri May 17, 2013 10:18 am

The prime material Plane and the appearance of dietys is only a 10% of their actual power.
So if they are listed as say20th this and 15th that and 22 of another thats only ten% of actual power in teir home base.

I am not known fort my spelling and as I see no spell checker here................. well.

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