Custom spells and requirements

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Custom spells and requirements

Post  Valerion on Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:28 am

I think that the custom spells, next to the way of HOW to find out certain spells, need more requirements, when I see a custom spell like "summon Golem" that can summon up to a level 40 Silver golem, immune to magic and having devastating critical. I must honestly say, that it should not say "level 10 requirement" in the spellbook and script, but level 40 requirement or level 35 or something more appropriate.
Because seriously, a level 10 that is able to summon one of the deadliest and most strongest golems in all of the NWN game...sorry but that is just laughable.

This applies to any extreme spell or any spell that is strong but has such low requirements.
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Re: Custom spells and requirements

Post  Animayhem on Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:22 pm

I agree however I think I would raise the requirement to level 21 epic character.
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Re: Custom spells and requirements

Post  LordSurge on Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:44 am

Maybe you should learn how that format actually works. It's a 10th level spell, so you have to be an epic level caster to cast it.
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Re: Custom spells and requirements

Post  Valerion on Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:58 am

Hmmm that remains to be tested, so far I can remember that a character with less than 21 and without epic spells casted it too.

But even if that is so, a level 21, able to conjure a level 40 Golem, that does NOT vanish with death nor is unsummonable but thrown out of the group and then goes rampage? Does anyone think that is balanced?
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Re: Custom spells and requirements

Post  Animayhem on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:22 pm

It could also be a scripting glitch as well. However after Eri and oda have fixed a major glitch they can look into it.

I think what would be more helpful is when you encounter one of these make note of what actions and such you tried to use to get rid of them. Maybe take a screen of their stats before.
NWN scripting is tricky anyway and when you add the high level of custom scripting this place offers...well.

If you think however someone is abusing this, that is to say summoning with good rp and just because they can, send a pm to oda and the dms to investigate.
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Re: Custom spells and requirements

Post  GM_ODA on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:36 pm

Magic can be a liability as much as a boon.

Imagine for a moment, that you are in a party with an Arcane caster who casts this spell - if that caster dies, the beneficial spell suddenly runs amok and is a danger to the whole part AND all the enemies yet left standing around nearby. This would rather seem to make it of utmost importance to protect the caster of that spell if you are an ally.

A spell that is level 10 and as such a caster would have to be level 20 (or 21 I forget and don't feel like looking it up atm) to cast one spell of that level. I will review the code to ensure this is the case but I think it is so as it stands now. The specific level of this spell we are discussing is - I think - level 10 but likewise I'll have to review (been away awhile).

What if the caster has no party? then we get  a rogue/wild monster that SOMEONE will have to deal with eventually. This makes a spell that can really bite one in the butt, regardless if your PC had anything to do with the casting of the summons.

IIRC even if the caster RESPAWNS the monster remains hostile.

Not mentioned here was the actual requirements to cast it - a rather goodly amount of material (wealth) - once the money bugs are quashed this should not be a problem as the cost will be an impediment to building the monster.

FEEDBACK WELCOME HERE ON WAYS TO MAKE IT BETTER BUT i WANTED TO BE SURE THE DETAILS OF THE REQUIREMENTS WERE FULLY DETAILED HERE BEFORE THE FLOOR WAS FULLY OPENED TO INPUT ... I just wanted to get us all on the same page as most folks don't know much about that spell.

Be well. Game on.
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Re: Custom spells and requirements

Post  Animayhem on Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:48 pm

Thanx Oda. That clears it up. Very Happy
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Re: Custom spells and requirements

Post  Valerion on Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:55 pm

About the material, well remove Adamantinum and Mithral and iron from the trade docks or let them be guarded extremely well, because anyone can go there, loot the crates with those materials and say, cost? Screw that now I can summon an army of golems!.

No Oda what I meant was, ignoring what situation the caster may be, that a level 20 caster, able to cast a LASTING monster with a level of 40, devastating critical, allmost comple physical AND complete magical immunity is just FAR over the top.

But I see the custom spells as a problem for itself on some points, like the dead magic areas, custom spells should not work there either, YES they ARE normal spells, they are spells from DnD 3.5 in a DnD 3.0 game, they fall under the SAME category as wail of the banshee or meteorswarm, no magic area = NO BLOODY ARCANE MAGIC. About nature nagic or divine magic I do not know there though.

I mean, look at the background, it has a reason why there are "non divine" "non magic" or "wild magic areas.

About the requirements, I think they should be slightly changed as said, even a level 40 fighter or mage can have a big problem with a silver golem, and then you get a level 20 who can summon it like nothing?....
I hardly can call that balanced. Yes it can backfire to a group but not always people play "together" in groups. As always two sides of one coin.
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Re: Custom spells and requirements

Post  LordSurge on Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:52 pm

The issue here is that the NPC Silver Golem is overly powerful (the immunities are over the top). The others are more inline with how they should be.

Dead and wild magic zones do affect custom spells. Good try though. Maybe you should summon a portal and see where it takes you.
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Re: Custom spells and requirements

Post  Animayhem on Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:35 pm

I agree with Surge about the golems immunities being over the top and that custom spells affected by wild magic and dead zones. As for limiting of metals and such not all metal is used for golem making.

There seems to possibly be an underlying problem with the scripting. I suggest we give oda time to look into it and maybe any caster who can limit when to use them, especially around others.
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Re: Custom spells and requirements

Post  Valerion on Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:34 am

Surge, I can teleport in and out of dead magic zones, I can summon a golem in dead magic zones, I can use clean and lingtarasse in dead magic zones, I can blink in dead magic zones.
All done, all tested, thank you for the concern, although Portals DO NOT work, other custom spells do when they should not....at least in my opinion....as said, if there is no weave, no arcane magic.
Otherwise the dead magic areas would lose their sense, ...in my opinion.

And I am limiting my use of custom spells, I do not teleport into dead magic areas or do not summon golems for more than RP purpose at the moment, as long as the circumstances work, I try to use custom spells as logical as I can.

As for the Silver golems, I do not think they are completely over the top and can stay as they are, they are quite a challenge even for high levelled characters, I see no problem in that, silver golems are like that, BUT I do not think, I repeat again, that a level 21 should be able to summon something that is double as "mighty" as himself, I mean, summon 5 Silver golems and there are few things that can stand in your way, even player characters.
I think that summon golem, as for the golems should be linked to the players level, like capturing monsters with a capture bag is. The stronger you are, the stronger the golem gets.

And of course, we do not push Oda to change such things, I do not press anyone to do something, I just wanted the stuff stated as a point of "change" somewhere in the future.
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Re: Custom spells and requirements

Post  Eriniel on Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:57 am

The Golem making spell is an epic spell, that requires material components (5 bars of the appropriate material - so for
5 silver golems one must haul around 25 silver bars.... That sounds a bit heavy for a mage)


For now the system mearly spawns the appropriate golem from the palette, I think the best bet with these 'creating' type spells would be levelled in real time, so when get round to it will make some level 1 golems of each time and they can be levelled when the spell is cast...


Custom spells are not effected by Wild and Dead magic yet cause I haven't finished adapting the custom spells routine for that yet.. But it will... Of course such things will also need the Divine/Arcane difference to be established, which is much easier on the built in spells than the custom ones. (well custom ones are easy enough until you have a Wizard/Cleric, or such).

Portals don't work in dead magic areas and screw up in wild magic areas because the portal code itself makes these tests.

Here is a question while I adapt custom spells to the wild/dead magic, what happens if the Wizard has targeted an area that is wild or dead at this time, and teleports in there with Greater Teleportation, or even Mass Teleportation bringing their party with them... What happens to the wizard (and their party)?


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Re: Custom spells and requirements

Post  Valerion on Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:29 am

Eriniel you are truly the goddess of coding! And you have no idea how much delight I am now feeling knowing you are already working/going to work on that, you are a precious gift to all of us :D

And the idea with the level 1 golem that levels like a henchman, MARVELLOUS!

The Metal bars btw are not that heavy, and a mage with the right equipment or bags can outsmart that problem.

Geesh I wished I could code, this way I probably could help you in this.

And about your question....um no idea...but a good question to put to the test!
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