Applying subrace templates to shifter forms?

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Applying subrace templates to shifter forms?

Post  Elgate on Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:30 pm

Currently the drow form is recognized as a standard elf by most scripts, Which rather deteriorates it's RP value. For example, other forms, like vampire, are excellent for infiltrating vampire covens, because they greet you as a fellow vampire. Other forms gain the language of the shape (From the scripted feat 'shifter speak' which allows the shifter to speak the language of the form). NPC drows don't react any differently to shifted drows (Although I'm unsure if they do) and shifted drows speak elven, rather than drow (because the script looks for the race, which comes back as just 'elf').

A few other forms seem to be lacking a few scripts (like the spell that mimics the rune stone, or being unable to fly despite wings- like the gargoyle form). I can make a list later if necessary.
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Re: Applying subrace templates to shifter forms?

Post  Eriniel on Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:44 am

That is plan indeed Very Happy

Working on improving the shapes thought I haven't done much improving to the Prestige Classes.
But yes like the Druid shapes the Shifter forms should interact as you said with others of their race.

Hmm actually that is going on my soon to-do list, Very Happy

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Re: Applying subrace templates to shifter forms?

Post  Elgate on Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:25 am

Just realized that post sounded a bit abrasive- sorry about that- I can't remember if I was in a bad mood, tired or distracted, but that was a little impolite of me.

I'll post a quick list of the forms and if they seem to be missing anything (Note that some of my forms will be epic forms, and will have replaced the standard forms, if that makes any difference:

Wyrmling: Complete (Flight, rune-spell, speaks draconic)
Harpy: Complete (Has flight and rune-spell. Currently has no bonus language- not sure if needed)

Gargoyle: Missing runestone spell, flight ability. Also no bonus language, but not sure if needed
Minotaur (Improved): Missing runestone spell (and no bonus language- maybe giant?)
Basilisk: Missing rune-spell
Drider (improved): Runespell (Also, what language would they speak via shifter speak? Currently they have no bonus langauge- drow?)
Manticore: No spell, or flight. Not sure if needs a language.
Drow (improved): No spell, is recognised as a standard elf (No added drow scripts)
Lizard Folk (Improved): No spell, (Speaks sname, so all good there)
Kobold (improved): No spell (speaks sname- all good)
Dire Tiger: Complete (Has spells)
Medusa: No spells, no bonus language
Ithilid: No spells, no bonus langauge
Risen Lord: No spells (Also undead still attack, but eh?)
Vampire: no spells, but is recognized as a vampire by others. Maybe should add sun damage for RP?
Spectre: No spells, is attacked by undead- should be able to pass through doors?...
Azer: No spells (as in runestone, same for all the above), no bonus language
Rakshasa: No spells, no bonus language
All golems: No spells
Elementals: No spells, no bonus language (?)

Also:
Dog form has a chance of inflicting negative energy damage on attack- seems to be present in a few other forms as well.
Bird form speed sticks past unshifting.






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Re: Applying subrace templates to shifter forms?

Post  Elgate on Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:45 am

Also, can I ask if it would be possible for DM's to temporarily give a language widget in lieu of the bonus langauge, in cases where it's important for RP to be able to use the appropriate shifter speak langauge- Eg, needing to talk to giants in giant to prevent something big in a plot line, but being unable to speak giant in Minotaur form when that's it's likely innate language. A more clear example would be the drow form.

Before I haven't really asked about this, because it wasn't key to a plot line, but I foresee events where being able to fully take advantage of this ability would be crucial.

I'm not sure how easy it is to take and give language widgits, but if a DM could give one for the period during the event and understand why, that'd be wonderful.
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Re: Applying subrace templates to shifter forms?

Post  BobbyBrown15 on Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:16 am

the issue with using the widget is when you shift your not allowed to use most items anyway, so i dont think that would be viable to give them a widget
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Re: Applying subrace templates to shifter forms?

Post  Elgate on Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:01 am

yeah- just tested it out. Can't use the widgets while shifted and it doesn't work using them before, then shifting and trying to speak with them- the scripted 'bonus' langauge over writes the widgit. Hmm.
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Re: Applying subrace templates to shifter forms?

Post  Shar on Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:55 am

I know this is being implemented anyway but I want it known that i see this as a very bad idea as it will overpower that class greatly.

Tigers casting spell & dogs with negative damage.... *face palm*
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Re: Applying subrace templates to shifter forms?

Post  Absol 13 on Mon Mar 17, 2014 8:33 am

Shar i think you may have misread- the dog with negative damage-probably a bug, and the spell, is the Spell that Mimics the runes stone item (as you cant use items while shifted ) We're not going to make all shifters run around casting spells- Hell no.
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Re: Applying subrace templates to shifter forms?

Post  Elgate on Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:47 am

Sorry for any confusion Shar- I was useing 'Spells' as shorthand for 'Runestone spell'. None of these shapes can cast any spells the caster knows in their normal form (aside from a few shapes that have select spells built in, like invisibility and ice storm).

And I put the dog shape bite glitch under bugs.

The actual shifter class is a very average class when it comes to power. It's a good RP class, and a jack of all trades, but a pure shifter would loose a fight against most other classes. Most of the added scripts are for RP purposes- allowing you to jump while shifted, use the shifter speak feat, eat raw meat, run faster, fly- and so on. So yes, Shifters have some RP advantages, but that's rather their purpose- other classes can take down an army with their skills in battle- shifters can replicate the skill set of the things the other classes are killing, but do so in such a way that they can get an advantage.
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Re: Applying subrace templates to shifter forms?

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