XP for Crafting

View previous topic View next topic Go down

XP for Crafting

Post  Nightcaper on Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:36 am

I had a moment of curiosity and decided to try a Wizard crafter. (the high intelligence comes in handy) I was under the impression that you get XP for crafting, but perhaps I was mistaken in that thought, as crafting the components for a dwarven war axe, and then the axe itself, did not give any XP. Perhaps it's bugged, however I will assume that crafting does not currently give XP, whereas I would recommend that it do. I'd even go further to suggest an XP rate, but take it with a grain of salt as there's no way I could know how everything will balance out. (the difficulty and time involved in gathering the resources and crafting them in to an intermediate form so they are craft-viable) So... I suppose here is my suggested XP rate, based on the smithing I've done: XP Gain = DC of crafted item * (pc level * 4). Multiplying the PC level by 4 because of the four stages before crafting required to get to that point:


  1. Finding the resource (no easy task in a world as big as this! Very Happy )
  2. Gathering the resource
  3. Hauling the heavy stuff all back
  4. Likely having to craft it in to an intermediate form, like ore to ingots



I feel this helps encompass the likely effort it took to get the resources, so two birds with one stone. For the sake of example, an item with a DC of 15 would give an XP of 60 with this formula (EDIT: Assuming you're level 1). Again, remember, I don't know how all of this balances out, I just didn't want to show up with a suggestion without any real proposed solution or brainstorming. Let's talk about this! Smile

Nightcaper
Posting Knave

Male Number of posts : 50
Location : Central USA
Registration date : 2015-04-08

Character sheet
Character Name: Curantis Wayward
Race: Human
Overall Level: 7

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  GM_ODA on Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:37 am

Friend Nightcaper,
Most excellent post!

Eriniel and I have been discussing some changes/enhancements to the crafting system recently, so your input is timely.

ATM, all PCs do get xp for exploring new areas, which is often but not always a preparatory activity with harvesting resources. We could add a small XP award for successful harvesting attempts. I might suggest that the route back with a load could be fraught with monster-rich xp. [insert evil DM laughter] ... actual crafting though...

Nightcaper wrote:XP Gain = DC of crafted item * (pc level * 4)

Hmmm maybe something like...

XP Gain = DC of crafted item + (pc level * d4) ... double this if the yield is a 'masterwork item' ???


_________________
Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
playnwn.com
96.31.77.127 NWN server requires cep2.1+
24x7 we bring the game.
avatar
GM_ODA
Forum Oracle

Male Number of posts : 2671
Location : USA East Coast
Registration date : 2008-10-17

Character sheet
Character Name: Firkin Alechugger
Race: Dwarf
Overall Level: 11

http://playnwn.hopto.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  Nightcaper on Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:00 pm

I like the idea of getting a small amount of XP for a harvest, Oda! I also think your revision of the formula is awesome in more ways than one. A d4 means the XP gained is variable in some form which fits with the idea that you may learn more or less from some crafts, which has a nice RP undertone! Shocked


That would be a great formula to use, masterwork bonus included, and thank you for your reply and input on this! Very Happy

Nightcaper
Posting Knave

Male Number of posts : 50
Location : Central USA
Registration date : 2015-04-08

Character sheet
Character Name: Curantis Wayward
Race: Human
Overall Level: 7

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  Roger_Dodger on Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:44 pm

Nightcaper wrote:

I've taken courses at Dorhal University in both 'Smithing' (metal working) and 'Woodworking'. I 'think' I got XP for finishing the courses (its been some time since I was in school, so I may be confused here). Anyway, a few comments on your list are in order.


  1. Finding the resource (no easy task in a world as big as this! Very Happy )
    The only places I've been able to locate 'raw materials' (ore or good wood) is in the classroom itself or in one of the areas of Noob U. 'Someone' needs to place some resources around where they can be found by the PCs. I've explored nearly every square foot of this world, and have never come across any suitable resources.

  2. Gathering the resource
    First you have to locate the resource (see above), then you need the tools for gathering it. I have never found any merchant in town that sells proper axes or picks for use in gathering resources (even IF you ever find any).

  3. Hauling the heavy stuff all back
    All raw materials are extremely heavy. A nice piece of Elm or Oak weighs upwards of 30 lbs, same for any Ores that might be found. Any PC will become over-encumbered very quickly IF he/she/it can even find the resource. There are Pack Oxen and Pack or Riding Horses for rent in one of the outside areas, but the 'merchants' will not rent them out. The Merchant Convo 'starts', but when it comes time to actually rent the beastie, the Convo simply stops. More work needs to be done in the way of renting Beasties.

  4. Likely having to craft it in to an intermediate form, like ore to ingots
    That's the easy part - there are several 'Crafting Anvils' around outside of town that can be used. There is even a forge in one area. Unfortunately, I've never come across a 'Crafting' Table or 'Workbench' that can be used for crafting a bow or other wooden item. . . . And you still have to 'find' the raw materials. Embarassed


I feel this helps encompass the likely effort it took to get the resources, so two birds with one stone. For the sake of example, an item with a DC of 15 would give an XP of 60 with this formula (EDIT: Assuming you're level 1). Again, remember, I don't know how all of this balances out, I just didn't want to show up with a suggestion without any real proposed solution or brainstorming. Let's talk about this! Smile

Using 'Skills', whether learned or natural, should always result in 'some' XP, like in 'Experience Points'. bounce

I am,
Roger Dodger
A Citizen of the Republic
avatar
Roger_Dodger
Forum Knight

Male Number of posts : 128
Age : 71
Location : Portland, OR USA
Registration date : 2015-05-09

Character sheet
Character Name: Grogan Klepsis
Race: Human
Overall Level: 11

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  Elgate on Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:59 pm

Natural ores, including Copper, fire agate and so on, can be found in the caves below the surface. They are few and far between. Many ores are rarer however and are in the very hard to reach places. 

The picks used to mine these are also hard to find- usually in hidden treasure chests, which, ironically, is where you can find ingots of the metals and ores you wanted to mine to start with.

Trees are harder- I'm not sure if the wood cutting script is fully set up yet, or the druid method of 'asking' for wood. There are woodcutting areas in the rurals of Dohral but I can't remember how they work.


Gathering resources was usually a step skipped by some of the previous crafters, who would prefer to find the pre-made ingots and materials hidden in chests or crates.  When it comes to gathering resources, it's usually monster parts and plants that are easier to find. It would be nice if this was made more feasible, then you can get adventurers who gain money and renown by being supplies of crafting resources- delving into those dangerous places to get those rare minerals. 

If a 'gather' xp is introduced, you need to be careful how that meshes with other classes- Druids and rangers, with their 'scavenge' abilities, can get potion mushrooms by the handful.
avatar
Elgate
Forum Sage

Female Number of posts : 634
Age : 24
Location : Scotland
Registration date : 2011-01-31

Character sheet
Character Name: Grace Fennerset
Race: Human
Overall Level: 30

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  Nightcaper on Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:58 am

Roger_Dodger wrote:


The only places I've been able to locate 'raw materials' (ore or good wood) is in the classroom itself or in one of the areas of Noob U. 'Someone' needs to place some resources around where they can be found by the PCs. I've explored nearly every square foot of this world, and have never come across any suitable resources.

Hey Oda, are you still taking on Guest Builders? If so, I wouldn't mind trying out a task like this, it seems simple enough and I've proven in the past that I'm a good explorer when my PC's life isn't threatened. Roger could help with this too since he knows the area outside of Dohral better than I do. Very Happy


First you have to locate the resource (see above), then you need the tools for gathering it. I have never found any merchant in town that sells proper axes or picks for use in gathering resources (even IF you ever find any).

Same as above, although I don't know how to do merchants yet. I could check if there's a Tool maker on the map in Dohral, otherwise maybe we could use an expansion area and put a tool seller there!


All raw materials are extremely heavy. A nice piece of Elm or Oak weighs upwards of 30 lbs, same for any Ores that might be found. Any PC will become over-encumbered very quickly IF he/she/it can even find the resource. There are Pack Oxen and Pack or Riding Horses for rent in one of the outside areas, but the 'merchants' will not rent them out. The Merchant Convo 'starts', but when it comes time to actually rent the beastie, the Convo simply stops. More work needs to be done in the way of renting Beasties.

I'd say this is realistic, though the Pack Oxen/riding horses would really help things. I'm assuming that's script work so that isn't something a Guest Builder could do, but if it is... Smile


That's the easy part - there are several 'Crafting Anvils' around outside of town that can be used. There is even a forge in one area. Unfortunately, I've never come across a 'Crafting' Table or 'Workbench' that can be used for crafting a bow or other wooden item. . . . And you still have to 'find' the raw materials.  Embarassed

Same as the way above post, I'm betting a Guest Builder could stick a crafting table and/or workbench in the villages outskirting the town of Dohral. I suppose if there's any wood shops in Dohral we could also put some in there!  Laughing

Using 'Skills', whether learned or natural, should always result in 'some' XP, like in 'Experience Points'.  bounce

Agreed with this. It doesn't even have to be much XP, just something, even 5 XP. Using skills means you're improving in them, so they should confer at least a little XP, maybe on a d10?  Question

Elgate wrote:
Gathering resources was usually a step skipped by some of the previous crafters, who would prefer to find the pre-made ingots and materials hidden in chests or crates.  When it comes to gathering resources, it's usually monster parts and plants that are easier to find. It would be nice if this was made more feasible, then you can get adventurers who gain money and renown by being supplies of crafting resources- delving into those dangerous places to get those rare minerals.

I really like this idea.


To reiterate, Oda if you're still taking on Guest Builders, I'm interested. I'm still doing the Toolset primer and I'm about to hit transitions and doors now, but it's been really easy to go through. The task you gave me before is still a work in progress, I haven't gotten to conversations yet, but I've written up design notes on how I'm going to make it and what things will be encompassed. (I just have to freshen up on my Dohral accent speak, to make sure it's all authentic. Wink)

Nightcaper
Posting Knave

Male Number of posts : 50
Location : Central USA
Registration date : 2015-04-08

Character sheet
Character Name: Curantis Wayward
Race: Human
Overall Level: 7

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  GM_ODA on Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:58 am

Friends,

The GUEST BUILDER program is still available to interested applicants. When you are comfortable with the toolset in general, I'll send you some materials specific to our methods here - and give access to some private forum sections for GUEST BUILDERS.

Thank you for your interest in helping improve our server!

KUDOS you!


_________________
Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
playnwn.com
96.31.77.127 NWN server requires cep2.1+
24x7 we bring the game.
avatar
GM_ODA
Forum Oracle

Male Number of posts : 2671
Location : USA East Coast
Registration date : 2008-10-17

Character sheet
Character Name: Firkin Alechugger
Race: Dwarf
Overall Level: 11

http://playnwn.hopto.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  LadyAloura on Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:01 am

also some classes can't mine or cut down trees so you need to take that in effect too

LadyAloura
Forum Knight

Female Number of posts : 217
Age : 38
Registration date : 2014-02-11

Character sheet
Character Name: Mialee
Race: Elf
Overall Level: 21

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  GM_ODA on Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:54 pm

Friends,
Here's another tid-bit from my design notebook ... it was thought that some classes ... the 'weaker ones' could use summoned creatures to harvest difficult resources. Any thoughts on this method? You know, summon an earth elemental and have it pluck more riches from the vein of ore than a mortal with a pick could do?


_________________
Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
playnwn.com
96.31.77.127 NWN server requires cep2.1+
24x7 we bring the game.
avatar
GM_ODA
Forum Oracle

Male Number of posts : 2671
Location : USA East Coast
Registration date : 2008-10-17

Character sheet
Character Name: Firkin Alechugger
Race: Dwarf
Overall Level: 11

http://playnwn.hopto.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  Nightcaper on Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:55 pm

GM_ODA wrote:Friends,
Here's another tid-bit from my design notebook ... it was thought that some classes ... the 'weaker ones' could use summoned creatures to harvest difficult resources. Any thoughts on this method? You know, summon an earth elemental and have it pluck more riches from the vein of ore than a mortal with a pick could do?



That is an amazing idea! I would love to see that!


Although this gave me an interesting idea... perhaps a 9th level custom arcane spell for summoning Pack Oxen to carry such things? Wizards seem to have some pretty freaking cool spells, why not one more? Perhaps I should put that suggestion in another area of the forum? Very Happy

Nightcaper
Posting Knave

Male Number of posts : 50
Location : Central USA
Registration date : 2015-04-08

Character sheet
Character Name: Curantis Wayward
Race: Human
Overall Level: 7

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  LadyAloura on Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:57 pm

i haven't tried but any one can buy a pack oxen in game

LadyAloura
Forum Knight

Female Number of posts : 217
Age : 38
Registration date : 2014-02-11

Character sheet
Character Name: Mialee
Race: Elf
Overall Level: 21

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  Nightcaper on Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:03 pm

LadyAloura wrote:i haven't tried but any one can buy a pack oxen in game



Roger_Dodger wrote:
All raw materials are extremely heavy. A nice piece of Elm or Oak weighs upwards of 30 lbs, same for any Ores that might be found. Any PC will become over-encumbered very quickly IF he/she/it can even find the resource. There are Pack Oxen and Pack or Riding Horses for rent in one of the outside areas, but the 'merchants' will not rent them out. The Merchant Convo 'starts', but when it comes time to actually rent the beastie, the Convo simply stops. More work needs to be done in the way of renting Beasties.

Nightcaper
Posting Knave

Male Number of posts : 50
Location : Central USA
Registration date : 2015-04-08

Character sheet
Character Name: Curantis Wayward
Race: Human
Overall Level: 7

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  Roger_Dodger on Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:39 am

Nightcaper wrote:
LadyAloura wrote:i haven't tried but any one can buy a pack oxen in game

Roger_Dodger wrote:
All raw materials are extremely heavy. A nice piece of Elm or Oak weighs upwards of 30 lbs, same for any Ores that might be found. Any PC will become over-encumbered very quickly IF he/she/it can even find the resource. There are Pack Oxen and Pack or Riding Horses for rent in one of the outside areas, but the 'merchants' will not rent them out. The Merchant Convo 'starts', but when it comes time to actually rent the beastie, the Convo simply stops. More work needs to be done in the way of renting Beasties.

Nightcaper: Thanks for noticing.
Just to verify, I got into the game, and traveled to the 'Beast of Burden' area. Here's the Convo:
SALESMAN: "Well I have a fine group of Oxen from which to choose. Each are only 700 Gold Coins."
PC: 1. "Just looking. I will come back again some other time." (Only choice)
SALESMAN: "Sorry to hear that. I do hope you'll return soon."
PC: 1. End Dialog

Beside the point: There is a tall building in this area with a portal. The sign by the portal says: "By Permission. Others use Rear Entrance." The Portal does not work. Up the stairs in rear of building is a door (Rear Entrance?). Opening the Door reveals NO transition.

Traveled to Horse Stable area, North of the 'Beast of Burden' area. Clicked on a (War)Horse - "Horse Chosen - Talk to the Merchant." (I really didn't want a Warhorse, I just wanted this one to whinny. Twisted Evil ). Took quite awhile to find the merchant (Naked - TEST Horse Trader). He's next to the road just SE of Stables. Click Merchant:
HORSE TRADER: "Uh, a fine steed indeed. That will be 4,000,000 MUs." [That's 40,000 GP if my calcs are correct!)
PC: 1. "Bit too pricey for me." (Ends Dialog) [I am only carrying 3.5 Mega-MUs so that may be why the dialog ended]

Also in this area is a building [Tivook Farm]. 3-Doorways, no Doors (Transitions), no people.

Back to town to make my report. I hope it is useful.

Yours,
Roger Dodger
A Citizen of the Republic
avatar
Roger_Dodger
Forum Knight

Male Number of posts : 128
Age : 71
Location : Portland, OR USA
Registration date : 2015-05-09

Character sheet
Character Name: Grogan Klepsis
Race: Human
Overall Level: 11

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  GM_ODA on Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:54 pm

Friends,

MANY THANKS for the bug reports.

I just fixed the pack animal salesman, he was missing a waypoint only.

I'll review the horse sales person (and clothe him) later tonight.

Be well. Game on!
GM_ODA

_________________
Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
playnwn.com
96.31.77.127 NWN server requires cep2.1+
24x7 we bring the game.
avatar
GM_ODA
Forum Oracle

Male Number of posts : 2671
Location : USA East Coast
Registration date : 2008-10-17

Character sheet
Character Name: Firkin Alechugger
Race: Dwarf
Overall Level: 11

http://playnwn.hopto.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  Roger_Dodger on Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:17 pm

GM_ODA wrote:Friends,

MANY THANKS for the bug reports.

I just fixed the pack animal salesman, he was missing a waypoint only.

I'll review the horse sales person (and clothe him) later tonight.

Be well. Game on!
GM_ODA

A Waypoint???? Well, I'll have to check it out later. Its nearly 7:30, and I've just started taking my old computer apart. So many wires!!!! I'll be offline for a few days building the new system and everything that entails.

Have a Happy Day Very Happy

Roger Dodger
A Citizen of the Republic
avatar
Roger_Dodger
Forum Knight

Male Number of posts : 128
Age : 71
Location : Portland, OR USA
Registration date : 2015-05-09

Character sheet
Character Name: Grogan Klepsis
Race: Human
Overall Level: 11

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  Nightcaper on Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:19 pm

Roger_Dodger wrote:

Its nearly 7:30, and I've just started taking my old computer apart. So many wires!!!! I'll be offline for a few days building the new system and everything that entails.


I'm about to order my parts tomorrow! It's gonna be a beastly PC, but I hope Windows 10 can run NWN.

Nightcaper
Posting Knave

Male Number of posts : 50
Location : Central USA
Registration date : 2015-04-08

Character sheet
Character Name: Curantis Wayward
Race: Human
Overall Level: 7

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  GM_ODA on Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:00 am

WIN 10 _can_ run NWN - you must install as administrator and then set the launch software to run as administrator in xp sp3 mode.

_________________
Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
playnwn.com
96.31.77.127 NWN server requires cep2.1+
24x7 we bring the game.
avatar
GM_ODA
Forum Oracle

Male Number of posts : 2671
Location : USA East Coast
Registration date : 2008-10-17

Character sheet
Character Name: Firkin Alechugger
Race: Dwarf
Overall Level: 11

http://playnwn.hopto.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  Roger_Dodger on Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:45 am

GM_ODA wrote:WIN 10 _can_ run NWN - you must install as administrator and then set the launch software to run as administrator in xp sp3 mode.

EVERYTHING I do on the computer is as an administrator. I don't have any other accounts, and don't use a password to start the computer (locked my self out of my own computer once). So, when (I get around to) I install NWN it will be as an administrator. Thanks for the tip about running in XP SP3 mode, though. That may save hours of frustration. I'll assume one still right clicks on the desktop icon to set 'compatibility mode' as before, yes?

As always, I remain,
Roger Dodger
A Citizen of the Republic

avatar
Roger_Dodger
Forum Knight

Male Number of posts : 128
Age : 71
Location : Portland, OR USA
Registration date : 2015-05-09

Character sheet
Character Name: Grogan Klepsis
Race: Human
Overall Level: 11

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  Nightcaper on Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:01 pm

Roger_Dodger wrote:
EVERYTHING I do on the computer is as an administrator. I don't have any other accounts, and don't use a password to start the computer (locked my self out of my own computer once). So, when (I get around to) I install NWN it will be as an administrator.


EDIT: By the below post I am assuming you are talking about UAC passwords/accounts and not the BIOS password.

I would HIGHLY recommend either setting up an administrator password and writing it down somewhere safe, or keeping the admin account passworded and regularly using a limited account. You're asking for malware to crack your computer wide open with that security setup, and there's a lot of shady people on the web. When I get my computer, I'm going to use my admin account to install needed drivers (won't upgrade unless it's broken though, because if you don't need a new version, upgrading will probably just break something) and other updates and software. Then I will password it and then use a limited access account for my regular usage to avoid issues, along with AdBlock and NoJS to help against bad websites... as well as using some common sense and intuition.



You are the last line of defense against bad things happening to your computer, please make careful choices.


Anyways, back on topic, crafting XP would be great in some form! Very Happy

Nightcaper
Posting Knave

Male Number of posts : 50
Location : Central USA
Registration date : 2015-04-08

Character sheet
Character Name: Curantis Wayward
Race: Human
Overall Level: 7

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  Roger_Dodger on Sat Jun 18, 2016 10:25 am

GM_ODA wrote:WIN 10 _can_ run NWN - you must install as administrator and then set the launch software to run as administrator in xp sp3 mode.

Actually, I ran the software as administrator, but strangely enough, it defaulted to VISTA SP2 for the comparability.

Also, along the way of installing new drivers (updated) and such, 'it' stuck in a password access to the computer. I don't think its an administrator password, but I have to enter it whenever I restart the machine or it comes off sleep or hibernation. The password is unique and I have used it for one, and only one, account. I suppose that's OK, but if my wife wants to start up the computer, she won't be able to use it without that password. I thought I had turned it off via the Control Panel, but it still demands a password.

Go Figger Razz

I did manage to get NWN to work, even the Premium Modules. I still haven't finished configuring everything (like installing HAKs, etc.), but at least the program works OK for now.

Continuing . . . .

Roger Dodger
A Citizen of the Republic
avatar
Roger_Dodger
Forum Knight

Male Number of posts : 128
Age : 71
Location : Portland, OR USA
Registration date : 2015-05-09

Character sheet
Character Name: Grogan Klepsis
Race: Human
Overall Level: 11

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  GM_ODA on Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:00 pm

Friend Roger Dodger,
NWN was made for XP. XP did not have ANY file permissions and thus ASSUMES full (admin level) access to all files when it wants them. Running in a mode like 'vista' which did debut permissions and 'admin access' will at some point fail as some subsystem tries to make a call as admin and is shot down by the OS. My advice is to override the 'default' that windows chose and set it for XP SP3.

Best wishes with that OS - do keep me posted.

Be well. Game on!
GM_ODA

_________________
Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
playnwn.com
96.31.77.127 NWN server requires cep2.1+
24x7 we bring the game.
avatar
GM_ODA
Forum Oracle

Male Number of posts : 2671
Location : USA East Coast
Registration date : 2008-10-17

Character sheet
Character Name: Firkin Alechugger
Race: Dwarf
Overall Level: 11

http://playnwn.hopto.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: XP for Crafting

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum