Permadead ...

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Permadead ...

Post  BenevolentDevil on Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:57 pm

I always opt for the soul runes  option ... and it's because , in NWN many factors outside of anyone's control can lead to demise ... be it a lag spike, NWN all of a sudden not responding to what you are clicking , or other loads of server "hiccups".

I do somewhat like the Perma-death from an RP standpoint though ... , characters die.  Death would be a sad , or tragic event if someone couldn't be raised/rezzed ...
It could also ( though I don't support PvP for the sake of PvP) , give a bit of fear to watch over your shoulder if :
1- You are "eeeeeviiiiilll", and a paladin is afoot to lay the smite down!
2- You are marked as "wanted" for bounty hunters ... dead or alive rewards in play ...
3- you are a mark for an assassin ... , when death is actually on the line , it really makes classes like that stand out doesn't it?
 and so many more examples, I'm not going to type out though.

So, it can "work" for things as well.  

I can imagine 'loosing" a friend during adventure ... having a funeral maybe?  Perhaps grave side service, placing the "body" ... plant flowers, and minor upkeep occasionally ( non-intrusive).  
Hopefully, it'll never be my characters funerals ... but the world is dangerous and uncertain.  

However, my suggestion is to maybe include a way for players to transport a body to  a temple  in hopes they can buy a rezz or raise?  Maybe you can already, I dunno ... but the thought did occur to me ... a body could be found ( assuming wildlife/monsters' didn't digest it ) , taken by others to a temple ... if a raise or rez not work ( too much time passed?) , perhaps the clergy could divine some answers about how said person died?  
Or send it to the Coroner for examination , giving players a "report" later they can investigate the findings of , if they want?

This could work with both PCs and NPCs ... , find a body , find out person was poisoned , autopsy reveals signs of struggle, and stab wounds ... a MURDER happened!  Should we try to find the murderer?  Is it an isolated event, or have many bodies been discovered and we are looking at a serial killer?  Who was this person, who did they know? What did they do?  Who would want this person dead?  Motives? ...

Just a thought really, wanted to suggest it before I forgot again.
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Re: Permadead ...

Post  GM_ODA on Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:44 am

Friend Benevolent Devil,

Thank you for your feedback. We value ALL feedback here and take all of it into consideration as we build the server and evolve the scripts.

I'll try to address your numerous points here, feel free to tag me if I miss anything.

We try to give options here where such are not contrary to setting lore (e.g. we allow options for permadeath or 'life-tokens'). We are still adjusting the way this works (the XP system is being revised to reflect 'more xp for greater challenge' of playing with permadeath on). Some folks really like permadeath, others see value in a having a few swings at this "life thing". We us a building philosophy that increases reward with increased risk (as noted this is being adjusted currently).

Especially now, player count is low, so we find that many prefer the option to respawn rather than require a friend raise or carry the body back to temple. You will be pleased to note that we do support that latter bit too. We are presently testing systems that allow carrying of other PCs - including corpses and captives. Very Happy

Note that with the life-token option your PC _can_ earn additional life-tokens by sucking up to, er, I mean serving your god with great devotion (DM interaction required - in the form of quests).

We are thinking much alike here. At present we have systems that allow for 'consecrated ground', and on such hallowed grounds spells like Animate Dead are suppressed. When all our planned systems are in place, it will be a good idea to have your PC buried in a properly consecrated cemetery plot... eventually systems will allow the purchase of a crypt or cemetery plot for just these purposes.

At present, you can examine any corpse and have a chance of discerning what type of damage is evident on the corpse. Carrying dead bodies (as previously noted) is in testing at this time. Handling dead bodies makes your PC stinky and dirty also. Very Happy


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Re: Permadead ...

Post  BenevolentDevil on Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:27 pm

Revisiting this, as I've had a streak of bad luck regarding any adventuring of late ...
Bav get's one-shotted alot it seems, and if it's not truely a one-shot , it's multiple attacks/bites before can fully react ( combat round refresh) ... with only 38 HP at 8th lev, and beyond "managable" xp range of things in her cr rating ... ( getting 1xp per creature in that range) , forcing a "kite" type of, picking at higher CR critters ...

Ants bite the crap out of her if she gets close , got one-shotted by giant stag beetle ( while in transition mind you, I had a good lead on it, still got her in the gate ) ... one shotted by a dire bear ,  but the ants hit crits quite a bit, and they multi-chew per round ...  technically i was sitting waiting on the new guy to arrive, and the thing wandered up as I tabbed out to the forum , to see if anyone had posted.

I like the permadeath idea, but more so for once you breach epic levels ... I think , anyways.  
Reason behind it, i see your low level pre-epics , not really that known. Death for lowbies and pre-epics wouldn't carry much weight tragic wise.  While realistically speaking such happens of course, it's rather a bit off putting, like what I just experienced a string of, trying to attain one more level tonight, while alone on the server.  I was playing it safe, trying NOT to die, yet ... crit, oops dead. Crit through the gate .. dead, Ant ran up on me, bite-bite dead ... NWN "dice" are at times, horrible to PCs ...


The multi-cost of soul runes ... I didn't realize until last night, it takes a rune when you die and re-spawn , and another to re-enter ... I think one i sufficient for any respawn, cause if the GM wasn't generous with the runes, it's not like they grow on trees lol.  Pay the soul keeper to get back, is better ... in my eyes.
You kinda can get shafted quick at times , and I just lost six runes in a row, like *snap* that.
3 "deaths" = 6 runes to get back , and I only had 5 ( odd number) somehow ...


Used to, we got quite a good bit of soul runes , had vitality potions, and packs. I forget how we tended to earn them , but seemed you got some per level on top of what was generously supplied at start off.
I messed with the vital pack in the PC chest earlier , couldn't get it to do anything, I assumed it's an empty "pack".  

 When getting up there in levels , you have more access to defense measures than when inside the pre-15th level range usually. ( even though my 16th level still gets killed alot lol), so attaining less of the runes, as going up sufficient ... Lower levels, need a way to kind of replenish em a bit, save em up for those higher and beyond lev 20 "oopsies" ...

I think anyways ... not really certain, 100% ... just kinda shooting ideas out there.

Death should carry some weight, I agree ... on one hand.

But lowbies/mid range levels, have to take more risk, not having quite as much item wise, defense/spells to chose from , where higher levels, and epics don't quite have the same risk, due to the extra items, defenses/ect ... it's not that highs/epics don't have to be careful, they just have a better means of protecting themselves all around, and mistakes then should be more costly, than to the struggling-ish low levs ... especially with the current xp/CR system not seemingly too balanced inside proper challenge ratings.

I also noted, soul binding to dust motes , did not work. It went through, said bound to stone ... but respawning via the option of last place bound to, still warped me to chonda port on the ship.


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Re: Permadead ...

Post  GM_ODA on Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:28 am

Friend Benevolent Devil,

WOW lots to work with here - thank you for the feedback and bug reports.

I'll review the dustmote (god of travel's shrines) as that needs addressing urgently, it is intended that players can depend on that system.

The old way of gaining additional soulrunes was that we would just give a full set to every PC who logged in after a server restart. PC ended up with waaaaay too many. It was ONLY that way for 'beta test' and we are exiting beta so those days are gone. It was intended that DMs could run major quests and occasionally reward a PC with a soulrune for quests which pleased their god greatly. Having fewer DMs means this is not often the case, in fact almost never. SOOOOO what I'll propose is this - every x levels, when the PC levels up, IF they have a certain level of favor from their chosen god, a soulrune would be earned. Feedback?

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Re: Permadead ...

Post  Helthan on Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:44 am

I think you may be onto something there. Maybe there could be a way to gain soul runes by somehow completing tasks for a diety?
Maybe if you offer them certain items, they will reward you with soul runes?
Just an idea, but I think it would make sense.
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Re: Permadead ...

Post  BenevolentDevil on Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:10 am

A few of my characters , don't have a god per say.

When the lore says can be poly-deitic, why have to choose one for runes? The in game inclusions of gods isn't complete, and even a few I've tried I thought might accept my characters, wouldn't. Unless I was very specific, like Vlonta and Lloth, ect.

Maybe those with direct divine access, just get more if blessed?
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Re: Permadead ...

Post  BenevolentDevil on Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:26 am

I hoped old server, reviewed one of my old characters ... I agree, Natasha at level 18 wound up with like 9 full vital packs, a bit too much as far as runes go , lol.

hmmm, let me take today, while at work and think of something viable maybe?
I'm still sleepy, so can't think real clear atm.
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Re: Permadead ...

Post  BenevolentDevil on Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:32 am

It's kind of difficult, because I know some classes are rather tougher than others.

But, we could start with taking one rune to respawn?
Give two on Lev up to Lev 10, 1 the rest? If religious, a bonus rune or two?
It's be nice too if they couldn't be sold in shops, but be a player tradable commodity.

Best I can think of right now.
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How about ability to earn additional ones?

Post  Aldior on Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:03 pm

For good work she/he could earn some maybe like Karma so what goes around comes around and could be a reward of bonus runes.  I know of a server where the Keeper hands out DM cookies whenever they notice someone being involved, contributing, Role Play that enhances overall experience for all other players. I suggest could do that with the life runes here. It could also be part of a quest, helping the emissary of your deity let's say?? A different approach on another is that it does not get affected until reaching level 20 or 25 then you forfeit one when you wish to regenerate.

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Re: Permadead ...

Post  Cyan on Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:10 am

I thought I'd hijack and add to this thread rather than start a new one with a similar topic.

I haven't played very long but this one thing made me a bit alarmed: How quickly I was eating through the soul runes. I died once in the tutorial area (Noob U.) and lost two soul runes coming back to life, and another after exploring at night and being killed by shadow beasts and ghosts (I was warned not to travel at night, but didn't want to wait the time for morning to come back round- It is a little cruel to put the starting area in the midst of an area that half the time will kill them). Four out of the ten runes have gone and I'd barely left the tutorial area. I have essentially three more chances and I have a feeling they're going to be eaten up very quickly as I try to reach level 6.

So a few suggestions I have for this:
* Make Noob U. a 'no death' area, so new players can safely kill themselves trying to climb ropes or swim and learn the mechanics and what their character can and can't do. A respawn on death within Noob U., especially as it's an OOC area and the no death script wouldn't be easily exploitable there.

* As mentioned above the 'double charge' of dying (A soul rune being taken on choosing 'respawn' and another being taken when you ask to return to the mortal realm) doesn't make much sense and I think one of those should be 'free' to do (Perhaps the 'respawn' option from the menu should be free?)

* Having ways to eventually earn new soul runes seems to be a very good idea, now that it seems dying is rather easy to do. I very much like the idea of earning them as thanks from deities, but I also wonder if you should be given one at certain level points (Such as every 5 or 10) as well- a natural 'reward' for surviving so long and doing great deeds.

I'm not sure what happens yet when you run out of soul runes, but I'm led to believe it's permadeath. While not to compare this server I've just started playing to other servers I vaguely recall, but I remember one server having a similar-ish set up: all new PCs are given 10 'soul runes' that make respawning 'free'. Once you run out of those or reach a certain level (I believe it was 10), dying was no longer free but cost a very hefty experience cost or even deleveled you. I don't recall liking this system very much, as it didn't make dying a 'threat' but just very, very annoying ( I never much liked death penalties even in Pen and Paper DnD- it just put you behind your fellow players and made the character less playable and the game less enjoyable). However, I did like that new PCs were 'exempt' or had cheaper deaths for a while, as the player figured out what they could survive and cope with and perhaps the 'experience' cost could be tied into getting new soul runes. An option to loose a certain amount of XP in order to 'buy' a new soul rune (This means that death would still be a threat and the xp loss is your own choice, to hold back a threat, rather than a frustrating penalty).
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Re: Permadead ...

Post  GM_ODA on Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:12 am

Friends,

GOOD food for thought!  Thank you ALL for your input so far. Let's keep the discussion open (don't mistake this for 'thread closed').

I'll  try to address some of the observations and ideas offered so far.

Some of our scripts are not currently functioning as intended. We will soon update the server to amend the known critical malfunctions.

Noob U deaths are supposed to cost nothing. Anyone who has lost any soulrunes in Noob U., just flag me or and DM down and we'll  restock your PC.

RE the city space where Noob U. exits being dangerous ... good point on it being a natural nexus for crunchy new PCs. I'll make it a point to add some additional patrolling NPC city guards around the city baths by night, and around  the palace, and the whole of North Chonda, so PCs  will have a reasonably safe route from the region north of the docks to the city's north gate. For anyone who has lost soulrunes as a Noob in the streets, ask me or any DM and we'll replenish your supply.

We are aware that the selection to 'nerf death until level 5' is not functioning correctly and will likewise compensate PCs for loss of soulrunes until this gets fixed in the update.

Double charge of soulrune on respawn event is ONLY meant to happen if you opt to have the PC start at the place of death. The other options such as 'start point on the docks', 'last bindstone location', or 'temple of my deity' should be at a single soulrune cost. ATM scripts are malfunctioning in this regard, soulrunes are refundable if you seek a DM.

Several have mentioned they would like to 'earn a soulrune' with leveling. Especially as our current DM cadre is thin (so your ability to earn soulrunes via DM quests 'for your deity' are a little rare) - I would be amenable to this. I will edit the level up scripts to accommodate this request on next update. I will likely also tie this to your 'divine favor rating' - e.g. 'how much have you happied-up the gods lately?'

New Forum Member Cyan (hello to you friend!) posted "I'm not sure what happens yet when you run out of soul runes, but I'm led to believe it's permadeath." To illuminate : your PC goes to a place known as 'elsewhere', there really is nothing fun to do there, you can pick a fight with the master of the space (NPC 'nilnulvoid'), but that is inadvisable as that NPC has a bottomless can of whup ass. Dying will make the master of the plane not angry with your PC again. The PC will continue to spawn in this place until a DM intervenes. Any DM can hear your case and opt to replenish your PC's supply of soulrunes (then kill your PC so respawn happens normally)... so basically you are stuck there until you can get a DM's help.

Cyan also noted of another server's death system "I don't recall liking this system very much, as it didn't make dying a 'threat' but just very, very annoying ( I never much liked death penalties even in Pen and Paper DnD- it just put you behind your fellow players and made the character less playable and the game less enjoyable). However, I did like that new PCs were 'exempt' or had cheaper deaths for a while, as the player figured out what they could survive and cope with and perhaps the 'experience' cost could be tied into getting new soul runes. An option to loose a certain amount of XP in order to 'buy' a new soul rune (This means that death would still be a threat and the xp loss is your own choice, to hold back a threat, rather than a frustrating penalty)." Well stated friend. I'll mull this over a bit - and would like some feedback from others. I admit I do like it that not all PCs get to level 40 here, because death matters, I do want to be reasonable about this especially for new PCs; our server offers many new features including ways to die. Very Happy

Again THANK YOU ALL for your input. Please keep the dialog rolling. Very Happy


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