Item breakage

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Item breakage

Post  BenevolentDevil on Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:39 am

I think the system has something wrong with item breakage.

I had padril enchant the new guantlets given, did not have them long , used em very little and still shattered unexpectedly.

In comparison to "normal wear and tear" , you get a message saying "item is in danger of being worn" or something similar.

In the instances of basic "weapon breakage" , we are not getting any " it's in danger message" , it's just simply randomly breaking, or shattering during combat. Or other situations ( Hel had mentioned his sword broke, when he cast flaming hands spell if I read it right.)

In my minds eye, anything enchanted would last a few thousand years beyond what a "normal" item would , it's kind of like " astral glue " , and why you find Dragons hoard magical treasures in DnD , because they last.

I don't mind a wear and tear system, or an over a period of time need to upkeep things ... , but what ever is going on at the moment isn't "normal" from my point of view.
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Re: Item breakage

Post  BenevolentDevil on Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:08 am

Oda see if you can DM E to look at the item breakage, Fei lost a Kama all of a sudden while fighting ooze elementals.

As far as I could tell, the weapon had over 3000 "HP" , but I don't know what the following strings of numbers mean.

If it's just a randomized chance of absolute breakage, no matter what , that I think should be removed. Wear and tear is fine, getting bad random rolls isn't lol.

BTW I do have my characters set via the RuneStone on DENY for weapon breakage, ect...
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Re: Item breakage

Post  BenevolentDevil on Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:49 pm

I think I have sorta discovered what is causing these shatterings ...

enchanting elemental damage on weapons.

Also casting spells, flame weapon, darkfire, ... or casting some spells like burning hands, all are "damaging" the weapons , even if you aren't using them.

If already enchanted , say like a +2 kama ... as long as it has no magical elemental bonuses attached to it, it's "hp/wear" runs down rather normally.

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Re: Item breakage

Post  GM_ODA on Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:59 am

Friend Benevolent Devil,

Good sleuthing! We will test this one day very soon.


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Re: Item breakage

Post  Cyan on Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:15 am

I was surprised to find my long sword shattered after trying and failing to fight of a shadow and was wondering what had happened. I don't think the sword had been swung even 50 times, and had only 'hit' once previously on a rat. I was going to suggest having this item damage script take in damage taken or dealt rather than 'use' (A sword that shatters after a being simply waved about is not a good sword at all), or at least have far more health, but it seems like this is a script that has just gone a bit haywire with porting to EE?
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Re: Item breakage

Post  Eriniel on Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:28 pm

The weapon shattering is actually a little more than just boosts to the weapon...

The Weapon Quality comes into play a lot.

Well made weapons tend to be more resilient to damage, especially shattering.

Ie.

A newbie human fighter who focuses his skill on just fighting isn't going to have the craft weapon skill + college bonuses + crafting successes behind him to make a good sword.

Whereas a dwarf weapon's master who's finely honed his skill in using and making that weapon has the craft weapon skill + bonuses, etc to make completely shatter resistant weapon of choice from scratch. And excellent other weapons.

It all comes down to the weapon quality, if you have enough craft skill left over on the dice roll to make the item, and it's made from scratch the weapon quality property is changed as you improve it.

So well made weapons can take a lot of enchanting, however simple weapons can't take so much without weakening them.


Yes I think the getting '1' on a d20 for instant shatter should probably go... or at least be optional.

Shattered weapons can be reforged either by a PC with enough crafting skill (and an anvil and hammer) or a weapon smith shop NPC.
All they need is the shards.

Place the shards in the anvil and strike the anvil with the hammer (Light Hammer, etc, all work).

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Re: Item breakage

Post  GM_ODA on Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:11 am

Cyan wrote:I was surprised to find my long sword shattered after trying and failing to fight of a shadow and was wondering what had happened. I don't think the sword had been swung even 50 times, and had only 'hit' once previously on a rat. I was going to suggest having this item damage script take in damage taken or dealt rather than 'use' (A sword that shatters after a being simply waved about is not a good sword at all), or at least have far more health, but it seems like this is a script that has just gone a bit haywire with porting to EE?

Friend Cyan,

Good observations. To explain the concept a bit - the idea is, most weapons have a preferred striking surface so if you are in a combat swinging a weapon and miss the intended target you might end up banging the weapon in awkward ways off of non-target objects. This is what potentially could break such a weapon.

That said, I agree the breakage rate is way over the top atm. I think it may be due to the switch to EE, but am not certain as yet. More on this later.


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Re: Item breakage

Post  GM_ODA on Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:59 am

Friends,

I had a moment to confer with Eriniel yesterday, and this was one of the matters we discussed. Eriniel posted above and I'll echo and elaborate a little on what she said.

Weapons are handled very roughly even in normal use. In the hands of a less-than-master, the mishandling can be significantly greater. In combat, with all the unexpected events transpiring around the PC, as the PC swings and sometimes misses, the weapon can come into contact with non-targeted objects often in ways that are less than optimal with regard to the engineered striking surface of the weapon. It is possible that you can whack a cornerstone with the flat of your blade for example possibly bending it, or chip your blade on the stone. Were this a bludgeoning weapon, while by definition built to 'knock about' even such items can break. If you've ever seen a baseball bat shatter in use, you know that there are cases where you can overcome the engineering that went into the device.

Eriniel reminds us in her post that not all things are made the same. Some items are of ordinary construction; looking sound and performing well under normal use but being just of basic durability. We've all bought a thing and had it wear poorly right into failure yet bought a similar thing and had it perform much better in terms of wear and tear under the same sort of use. Some items are made with better than typical craftsmanship/materials and these are the items worth the extra gold... they will perform well in the face of adversity.

Now, how best to simulate that for those who want it?

Some of the systems we use were taken from the old IGN NWN vault, most of them were refined as we installed them, some were adopted without much if any revision - but with intent to test, review and modify later. Life gets busy and some of those latter type of scripts never got the final steps taken to refine them.

I've been tasked with the quest of examining the code on this one and consider the system as a whole for improvement. The straight from the vault system was such that on a miss, a 1 in 20 check would break the weapon. This is 5% and just waaaay to high, not to mention pretty darned crude in the overall. Our installation of the original vault system took into account item quality. As Eriniel noted, when an item is crafted, the crafting total is examined both to determine if the item was successfully crafted (e.g. the roll minimum target was made), but also it is the amount over the minimum that was rolled in the crafting attempt that determines the item quality. So a crafter who can only just barely succeed at making a particular thing is going to turn out a mundane quality item, but a crafter who is able to create the same item with ease will quite possibly turn out a 'better than ordinary quality' item. It is these latter types of item that should last even through extensive use, and the lesser quality ones basically fall apart long before the dragons' hoard can be appraised.

Eriniel's massively re-scripted crafting system takes into account all the lovely details regarding the skills of the crafter to determine not only the powers incorporated into the item but the overall quality of the thing that is created, even such details as a better quality item being able to hold more enchantments.

I'll review the code in the weapon breakage to make it something more reasonable than the 1 in 20 that it is at present - my new method will likely include some reduction in damage done to gear during such mishaps based on the level of the wielder. As an example a level 1 fighter swinging wildly will damage the gear more than a level 10 fighter who is also missing a target as frequently.

Any feedback/input on this before I start the code surgery?


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Re: Item breakage

Post  BenevolentDevil on Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:36 pm

We simply do not have enough players to warrant total dedicated crafter builds , to have excellent quality items in play.

Most these "breakages" are from items bought from shops too, and we have no options to negotiate with shop owners, driving supply of better quality items up.

It's a neat concept, if we had those very interested in crafting , an "economy" of sorts of such ... but right now, it's just a pain in the butt to be honest.
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Re: Item breakage

Post  Helthan on Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:44 pm

Speak for yourself, I HAVE a character who is dedicated to crafting. Though, I need to level him up, a lot.
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Re: Item breakage

Post  BenevolentDevil on Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:40 pm

I have one too ... still , without a player base ... it's not as fun.

Being able to craft/repair for others , is a huge part of it.
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