Devastating Critical.

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Devastating Critical.

Post  Julia_D_Audarius on Thu May 28, 2009 1:41 am

Heya:

I just wanted to drop by and ask if the Devastating Critical feat was allowed here?

~PO Julia
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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  GM_ODA on Thu May 28, 2009 11:52 am

Presently DEVASTATING CRITICAL is allowed and unmodified here. We are reviewing possible modifications to that power however and reserve the right to tinker like the mad scientists we are (annoying laughter optional).

Very Happy


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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  Julia_D_Audarius on Thu May 28, 2009 1:20 pm

Heya:

I know that as a card carrying member of the warrior classes, I am not suppose to say this, but I am against the Devastating Critical feat. Usually it results in a horde of twin Kukri wielding WM with max strength. Because the save to avoid instant death can easily be in the fifties, most other types of melee character face instant death. I feel like dis-allowing Devastating Critical allows for more types of characters to thrive.

Anyway. Just my two cents.

Also, we have a egyptian emoticon. farao

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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  Ulrek on Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:20 pm

i have roughly two cents to add to this.. don't riot on me now...

dev crit should stay in my mind its evil but without it warriors tend to be weaker than mages i find so unless you can find away to make up for its power in some other way leave it be its not hurting anyone.... well it is but its mean bad nasty world out there anyway...
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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  samanuske on Sat Jun 06, 2009 10:38 am

Keep it. Without it, warriors are replaceable by mummy dust or premonition.

Besides, it's a warriors answer to everything that mages can do, and it's still chancy as hell and one man at a time.
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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  ZEvilChickenZ on Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:44 pm

Perhaps devastating criticals should damage the target of 50% of its total HP and have a crippling effect instead of an instant kill. I personally like instant kills but for the sake of making fighting a challenge, I think this would work well. geek
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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  Ulrek on Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:29 am

50% of target health and maybe slowing them and taking out some of there STR would be close to as nasty as a one hit kill

just my two cents... mind the no rioting signs.. if you please...
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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  Shadow on Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:57 pm

To say this bluntly, I HATE the feat. Every time I've seen it used it does nothing but leave one person disapointed, along with destroying a perhaps enjoying RPing experience. Combat RP can be loads of fun, but with this feat it leaves the fight down to one strike, two if the other person has decent saves.

It would be my opinion to leave this feat out of the game entirely, but...that's just me. I've never seen anything good come out of it.

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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  Ulrek on Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:12 am

as shadow has pointed out..

yes it is a nasty weapon...

but it has a reason.....

if a warrior lacked that kind of power how would thay make up for it in another way?

thay need some kind of power thats deadly for PvP mages can just take you down like *snaps fingers fast*

....so if you value the fighter and ranger and paladin classes that put their lifes work in to STR points at all...
leave it in but maybe change it so its not a 1 hit kill....

Chicken had a good idea up there about this with the 50% of HPs
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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  AnmeyaMax on Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:12 pm

What about this
It will instantly kill you if your health falls below 10% or 20% if not you will be knocked out.


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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  Little Berde on Fri Aug 28, 2009 9:28 am

AnmeyaMax wrote:What about this
It will instantly kill you if your health falls below 10% or 20% if not you will be knocked out.


~AnmeyaMax
Now there is a good idea. cheers

I remember something from my old PnP days about the effect of critical hits that take a large portion of your HP in one shot... I think your constitution score had something to do with it... System shock perhaps... can't remember now.

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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  Numanor86 on Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:20 am

I am compelled to weigh in on this thread Very Happy

IMHO Dev. Crit is a poorly designed, thrown together, thrown in feat that was supposed to balance things between caster and fighters. I have fought against NPCs and PCs on a couple occasions where Dev. Critt was used against me, it was frustrating to say least. One another side: one has to use almost all their ability score raises and select many feats as pre-recs for this feat, IMO, it can and in my XP usually leads to some cookie cutter characters...sorry:(, I could definitely be wrong on that point but, it's what I have seen!

If I was to make a balancing feat for the melee class it would be this: empower the over-whelming critt. feat.
One would more easily qualify as for pre-rec so other build options would be open to PC. I would suggest an overwhelming critt something like this: 10D12 dmg. with a stun/knock down/crippling hit ext. bonus effect.
Just my 0.02$ folks Very Happy

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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  Shadow on Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:55 am

I agree with that wholeheartedly. Your recommendation would allow for a more balanced and flexible character, instead of one that just goes "BONKCRITLULZ". Yet, 10d12 is still incredibly powerful, and the stunning effect for a round or two would be a neat little cookie.

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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  Ulrek on Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:13 pm

all good ideas my only thing is this....

make it something else other than "on hit kills" and still be nastie and you have your answer to the problem mostly

(and it seems heal potions and "dev crit" are two things people never stop fighting over)

just my two cents....
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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  eve_of_disaster on Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:22 am

I've not seen any pvp take place yet on the server. But I did get teamed up with a dev critting drow who proceeded to hack everything up before my eyes. I usually find some satisfaction when beating monsters in pvm but I wouldn't consider the dev crit feat a fun way to play pvm... But that's just me. I'd rather have some really graphic thing instead where if you hit someone with the dev crit you damage enemies in a line behind them. Like a shockwave or something. It is epic levels anyway, so why not? Very Happy

Since the dev crit supporters argument is that it balances pvp battle between mages (who are the strongest class in the game btw.) and warriors I'd suggest that dev crit adds arcane failure on successive hits (like, 10, 20, 40, 80% and with perhaps a slow of 20%) as a secondary feature, instead of the oh so boring one-trick-pony which is the current epic warrior. On top of that it should also do extra damage, but I very much dislike the one-hit-kill-thing.

I have no idea how that could be implemented, however. But if I made a cleric I wouldn't stand a chance against a mage, so I don't really get the argument's validity. Put simply, dev crit is a way to make fighters the strongest class in the game when it comes to melee fighting, and to give them a chance against the otherwise strongest class in the game; the arcane casters (sorcerers and wizards). It also makes all pvm encounters short dull breezes, except if you are fighting constructs and undead. Which leads me to another point; since arcane casters are the only class viable for palemaster levels, dev crit can quickly become completely obsolete even WHEN fighting mages. So then you have a fighter who supposedly picked dev crit to be able to pvp against casters, but they are still utterly useless against said arcane caster - though against everything else they are still on the top of the food chain. Now, how is that balanced? Smile

On another note and very much in my oppinion, the pvp arguments are kind of stupid as I think all combat between players should be done IC, but you could still make the argument, from my perspective, that a solid pvp build is really cool and fun to play. Smile

A counter-suggestion could be to lower the effective damage you can soak with premonition and/or epic warding. That would also give an edge to any other class fighting a mage (not that it would help much), but it would lessen the gap somewhat in pvp. You could also remove timestop, since that's what makes the wizards the pvp machines they are. I've played on some local server vaults and I must say pvp is ever flourishing there and timestop and dev crit is nowhere to be found - evar! Personally I think timestop is one of the more boring spells in the game, and I've played mages quite a bit too. It's not even fun in pvm imo... If it'd be an epic spell I'd think it would be balanced. Otherwise it just takes up slots for my maximised IGMS. Razz
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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  eve_of_disaster on Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:27 am

Ulrek wrote:all good ideas my only thing is this....

make it something else other than "on hit kills" and still be nastie and you have your answer to the problem mostly

(and it seems heal potions and "dev crit" are two things people never stop fighting over)

just my two cents....
Oh, and I'm against heal potions too. At least if they are something that is easily accessible. Removing them from the DMFI area would be good since it's so easily abuseable. They would serve better as a reward for dm-plots, where you find a chest with like ONE in it. Frankly, there are healers in the game that would be much more appreciated if not for these potions. Heal pots promotes rushing into the fray like a moron instead of tactical fighting... >.>'

I don't even get why they are in the starting area. They cost 1300 a piece and only new characters are allowed to shop there. O.O
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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  Ranger of the Pubs on Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:26 am

Fighters arent the strongest class in game lol....not on this one anyway..

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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  eve_of_disaster on Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:16 pm

That's only because of the custom spells, of which several currently lacks a saving throw (which is why they are called Test Spells? as I understand it - so once it's fixed the casterclass shouldn't be that imbalanced).
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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  Ranger of the Pubs on Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:55 am

well i wasnt only referring to casters... think about it. A player character's limitation here is really their own imagination. i think things are pretty well balanced.. just takes some figuring. Smile

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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  eve_of_disaster on Fri Apr 16, 2010 7:29 pm

In the end you might be right. I've clearly not played long enough to be a judge of it. Smile
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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  KangTheMad on Wed May 05, 2010 9:58 am

I have to say that I am against Dev Crit. Insta death on a save that can be in the 50's? No no no. Thats overpowered. What I think should happen to Dev Crit is that it adds 2d10 Massive Critical, and stuns for one round, DC 24 fortitude save. MAX.

Why such a low DC? Because if it had a high DC, a rapier weaponmaster (critical threat range being 10-20 there) will be Dev critting every other hit, and the opponent would be unable to recover before he gets stunned again.

As a DM, there is nothing more that I hate than a build designed purely to have a large threat range Dev crit a monster that is supposed to be tough. I also don't like people spamming FoD. So I made boots for all my creations that gives immunity to Death Magic and Critical Hits. A small balance, but DMs have to make those boots themselves instead of pulling them from the palette.

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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  eve_of_disaster on Wed May 05, 2010 12:52 pm

KangTheMad wrote:I have to say that I am against Dev Crit. Insta death on a save that can be in the 50's? No no no. Thats overpowered. What I think should happen to Dev Crit is that it adds 2d10 Massive Critical, and stuns for one round, DC 24 fortitude save. MAX.

Why such a low DC? Because if it had a high DC, a rapier weaponmaster (critical threat range being 10-20 there) will be Dev critting every other hit, and the opponent would be unable to recover before he gets stunned again.

As a DM, there is nothing more that I hate than a build designed purely to have a large threat range Dev crit a monster that is supposed to be tough. I also don't like people spamming FoD. So I made boots for all my creations that gives immunity to Death Magic and Critical Hits. A small balance, but DMs have to make those boots themselves instead of pulling them from the palette.
I thought a high ac protects against 10-20 crit range? Like, if you're at such a high ac that only a 20 will do the trick then the 10-19's won't cut it...
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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  KangTheMad on Wed May 05, 2010 2:29 pm

There is always a line between AC and AB. It is easy to get your AB up as you level, it does so naturally. But unless you are a monk, your AC won't.

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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  eve_of_disaster on Wed May 05, 2010 4:48 pm

I beg to differ on the "monkbuilds the only with high ac" part but I see your point. Smile
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Re: Devastating Critical.

Post  Ragdoll_Knight on Wed May 05, 2010 7:15 pm

pale masters can have a +16 AC bonus at 28 PM Very Happy
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