Points about the server wich I think are criticaly important.

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Points about the server wich I think are criticaly important.

Post  Your_mom_is_mine on Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:20 pm

Truth be told, I haven't been here for long, but I can already name a few discrepancies that have no doubt been left alone, and shouldn't.

1: Argentum and its barren lands.
Yes, the server is ~very~ barren. I'd be bold to say 70% of the servers areas have little, to no spawns at all, wich makes not only traveling frustrating, but also guiding ourselves through it. The server, in my oppinion, is as large as it needs to be. It needs a severe population survey ASAP. The whole 'DMs need areas for events' thought really only encourages more barren areas to be created, instead of focusing on what is also a strong point of a RP server: hunting.

2: The fact the server is not friendly to new players.
I have indeed noticed the efforts to make the game more friendly for new players, yes, but I think it is still very 'blurry' for new guys. Personaly, I think the starter area, should lead right to the tutorial area. Maybe add an npc there that starts a tutorial quest, for players to understand how Argentum works. And only then, should they be presented with the alternative of going to the server 'per se', or continue on that area.
The way it is now, is just too confusing, there's ~way~ too much to read, and some players just lack the patience at times for it. Just my two cents on this though. No offense meant. The way it is, we keep losing players to other more stream lined, and in my oppinion, with less potencial, servers.

3:Dohral and its streets of Doom.
I'm going to be a bit more.. direct here. Why are the cities of Dohral filled with such powerful creature spawns, to the point of making new players depressed that the first mob the ysee, they are obliterated by it? Jeez. God knows how I felt when the first creature Nashi sees, is a Balor imploding her with 29 DC. I vote that all spawns on Dohral streets should be removed, especialy the shadows and Blackguards, and Balors. i'm sure you all agree that RP wise, everyone would have left the city if it was like that for more than one night. Not only does it make sence Rp wise, it frustrates players. Again, just my two cents.

Phew, that was long..
Anyway, I mean no offence with these words, but I believe these are crucial points in the passing from Beta, to Full version. They ~must~ be focused on, or Argentum will start to wither in time.

Open for comments\suggestions to my words,

Y.m.i.m.

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Re: Points about the server wich I think are criticaly important.

Post  eve_of_disaster on Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:32 pm

I agree with you on all that. Removing the balors/vamps/were-creature spawns should be done, but instead put in ruffians, thugs, rogues, robbers. Things like that.
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Re: Points about the server wich I think are criticaly important.

Post  Your_mom_is_mine on Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:46 pm

You see.. That would actualy make sence. Like the ruffians in North Chonda. Anything surpassing that is just pushing it too much. There are still many areas left to be completed within the city as it is. many doors that you open, only to find them 'blank', for instance.

On another level, I was just told by Sahral, a new player aswell, that in his time here, he's seen 5 new players that simply gave up, because the server was too complicated to iniciate themselves on. And he felt eve nworse for not being capable of helping also. I'd say these events should at least make someone think twice about why the community isn't growing too much.

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Re: Points about the server wich I think are criticaly important.

Post  Mizfat on Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:35 pm

I'm pretty sure the streets of doom spawns only occur at night. My lowbies have learned to stay indoors at night. Also, I suspect there is an ic reason for them. we might should try and figure out a way to stop them.
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Re: Points about the server wich I think are criticaly important.

Post  MetalTree on Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:49 pm

There IS an IC reason for them. I don't know if I'm supposed to say something about it or not, so I'll take the safe way and let you RP to figure it out..

Yes, I'm dropping the FOIG bomb. Very Happy

FOIG = Find Out In Game
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Re: Points about the server wich I think are criticaly important.

Post  Ulrek on Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:00 am

MetalTree wrote:There IS an IC reason for them. I don't know if I'm supposed to say something about it or not, so I'll take the safe way and let you RP to figure it out..

Yes, I'm dropping the FOIG bomb. Very Happy

FOIG = Find Out In Game

i'm pretty sure you can say there is a IC reason for something if there is one.

oh and bobster, thats not my stronghold, i just made it and tried to bring players to it to give some life.

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Last edited by Ulrek on Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:03 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : i'm a idiot and forgot to reply to bob's post....)
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Re: Points about the server wich I think are criticaly important.

Post  GM_ODA on Sun Jul 11, 2010 6:19 am

We always like feedback here. Some of the suggestions fit very well, others not so much (often for reasons beyond a player's knowledge; e.g. there are things beyond your understanding here - some we intentionally obfuscate too).

1. I try to build in a believable fashion - this in part means being cognizant of what neighbors a monster might have. Opposed monster factions would generally kill one or the other faction before a PC ever happened on the scene to get some combat action anyway. Hence, we space them out a little, give a small amount of 'room to move' for all concerned (DMs and monsters). This said, I'm only just recently embarked on adding additional encounters that activate ONLY when DMs are not online (so this helps fill in some areas with wandering monsters when DMs are not around) - but this is a task only just started, the module is 1100+ areas in size and my days are only 24 hours long. Let it suffice that additional encounters are being added as time permits and in areas where it makes good sense to have them appear. Travel times are what they are here, we are simulating foot traffic, horse traffic and a large land to roam, having places to go means you don't have to bump into other PCs and PARTIES every step of the way. In sort, I like the mix as it is, and I'm not trying to build a module like all the others out there. When your PC gets off the road well traveled you find more monsters and less civilization; this works to my way of thinking.

2. I beg to differ on your opinion. We've done a great deal to make this place friendly to new players. I respect your opinion differs too. The tutorial area, I view as an OOC place where the PLAYER learns how to interface with the game, it is NOT a place where your PC learns to climb trees or swim (he/she already knows this, but YOU the PLAYER do not know how to trigger it, hence a tutorial). Tutorials are OPTIONAL where I come from, any PLAYER can choose to do or not do it, and reap the rewards or not as they please. Note that forcing all PCs into it means you are forcing even veteran PLAYERS to do it again. The start area was recently trimmed to streamline the options available and reduce PLAYER confusion, it is too soon to change it again as I have more feedback to collect (and much of it is positive fyi).
Understand, there is reading involved in NWN, everything is text (convos, talk channel, all that). I've kept the text brief, and PLAYERS are welcome to play in utter ignorance (e.g. not read if they prefer). There is no pill, no suppository, no magic wand to imbue a PLAYER with the lore of the server; how to use things, how things work and interact. The text I have reduced several times, you see the refined result. This may be further refined but - atm I see no extraneous verbiage to tweeze.
I've gone to great efforts to provide multiple routes to learning here, including tutorials, journal entries, FAQs on forums and in game (KRAG'S NOTES), as well as some NPC convos that dole out info. The bottom line is PLAYERS choose to use them or not, but they are there for those who want them. For those who do not like to read, there is nothing I can do but let them game on as they please, not knowing is, sadly, their loss.
I've seen many PLAYERS come here and LOVE it, I've seen some come and leave. No server is for everyone, all are free to choose. My experience does not match yours on numbers leaving; the server is growing and has been for a long while, albeit still in beta (which keeps some away).

3. The systems used to spawn are having issues with the low-probability spawns, I'm sorting thru the code to find out why; it is spawning too many monsters and too often - there IS a method to the madness and a reason for the monsters in the city (at night only). It is appropriate to flee creatures that would eat you if your PC is not suicidal. Very Happy I _have_ reduced/eliminated the nastiest of those spawns while I sort out the script issue with the rest. These spawns were excised some time ago from the first few areas where PCs travel in the city to avoid killing the noobs on entry.

No offense taken, none intended either.

Thanks for the feedback. All feedback is good. Very Happy

On other unnumbered issues - empty areas were designed in to allow me room to build into the city those things I (humanly) forget to put in on my original design. These allow me to insert more player owned housing, add missed shops or NPCs, and many other things. This was done intentionally so that the feedback I collect which inspires me to add features are not left to be added outside the city walls.

Be well. Game on.
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Re: Points about the server wich I think are criticaly important.

Post  eve_of_disaster on Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:38 am

I just want to add that I feel it is often required for a more experienced players or a dm to help newbies to both find their way to the tutorial area and to get through it. Personally I recieved great help from Cj, Ek and Erin when I started out so I always felt welcome here, though if noone had appeared to more or less hold my hand as they'd walk me through the tutorial I would likely not be playing here today. So after reading your response to part two of Ymims post, I feel quite unappreciated. :/

As a player on this server that I've come to love - a whole lot due to the fellow players that enrich it - I would like nothing more than for it to be further enriched so to me something definatly could be done to even more streamline the first few steps into Argentum Regio, even perhaps rushing players through a very short tutorial that only tells them the absolute basics and ends with a levelupper, then finishing the tutorial with a book further detailing the system if the players needs it. This will let them easily access those advanced basics that they probably skipped through by going straight to the levelupper. In fact this could be done as easy as adding a sign by the first pallisade gate in the tutorial area: This sign could say something like: Right - shortcut to levelupper, straight - advanced tutorial. Personally I confess to never having gone through the whole tutorial and look at me, I did alright.

As you pull the lever you could be given a book with just a quick detailed list of what the basics of getting around/surviving are so that you can look back to it for reference in case you forget how to light the fire or how to swim or jump.

That is how I learned it, being rushed through the first part of the tutorial, gaining my levels and set loose upon the world. Something I would like to see to make things simpler for pc's would be some kind of introductory quest where an npc stationed right outside the tutorial area would offer up either a "slay the sewer-rats" quest or a "deliver this package" quest, so that they may quickly get into the mood and feel of the city. The first mentioned quest would simply suggest an exp-area they should be able to handle, while the second quest would give them the option to learn where things are a bit better by sending them to find some local celebrity who would reward them for the package. The quest could be further developed later on so that it would be different for different classes, thus helping the player by finding the pc a good location to start out from on further travels.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm demanding alot. I realise you have so much on your plate right now, with the player base increasing resulting in more demands, but this is one of those things I personally think would help greatly by making more players stick around long enough for them to realise this server is really good.
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Re: Points about the server wich I think are criticaly important.

Post  GM_ODA on Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:35 pm

I think you are taking it in the wrong spirit. It is not at all required to have help to get through the tutorial, the signs there explain every step of every station. I myself like to act as a guide when I have time because it gets me excellent first impression feedback. Others do similar sometimes just to meet the new PLAYERS, or for other reasons I'll leave to each to share as they please.

All the stations in the tutorial areas are optional, there for those who wish to learn about them. As you yourself noted, you never did the whole tutorial and you did OK.

My philosophy on this is "make it all optional, let the game-mechanic-nerds read and learn as much as they please about the servers' workings, but allow those who are more carefree just jump in at whatever point they are comfortable with jumping in." Many PCs are those of returning PLAYERS, these people have expressed an interest in being able to build a PC and just jump into the game since they KNOW all that the tutorial offers by now. Others have expressed interests in side tutorials on one thing or another, and those have been likewise added over the years. What I'm not wanting to do is make a 'tutorial quest' that PCs must complete prior to entering game world as this would fly in the face of some prior requests. I'm trying to cater to MANY levels of server lore here. I even allow entry to Noob U from the city of Dohral because some people have asked to be able to enjoy the dramatic entrance and still be able to do the tutorial. I see no problem with any of these choices. What is presented here is all about choices, like KRAG's NOTES which is an option given so those who skip some or all the tutorials can still get the skinny on how to do things when they need it.

Different PLAYERS want different things in an entry and I've been polling people on this for YEARS. Some folks want to customize their stuff before being dumped into the game world, some like to arrange/famliarize themselves (the PLAYER) with the PC's gear, some like to pause to read up on the server/world/module, some like to engage tutorials, some like to jump in and get their feet wet right away. As it is, we cover all those options and they are just that OPTIONAL each and every step.

I'm saddened to hear you feel unappreciated. That is certainly unintentional. I am also touched that you have come to love this server. I love her too.

eve_of_disaster wrote:Something I would like to see to make things simpler for pc's would be some kind of introductory quest where an npc stationed right outside the tutorial area would offer up either a "slay the sewer-rats" quest or a "deliver this package" quest, so that they may quickly get into the mood and feel of the city. The first mentioned quest would simply suggest an exp-area they should be able to handle, while the second quest would give them the option to learn where things are a bit better by sending them to find some local celebrity who would reward them for the package. The quest could be further developed later on so that it would be different for different classes, thus helping the player by finding the pc a good location to start out from on further travels.

Now THAT is a request I can get behind 100% - had not thought about that but yeah, maybe one of our 'TASKMASTERS' trolling the alley near the baths could fill this bill? That could offer new PCs an unlimited number of quests (five at a time) to choose from that would get them moving around in the city a short distance. Also, this is something that could be dropped into place fast and fairly easy - a full on NPC with scripts and convo such as you describe could be a longer term addition/solution.

eve_of_disaster wrote:
Sorry if it sounds like I'm demanding alot. I realise you have so much on your plate right now, with the player base increasing resulting in more demands, but this is one of those things I personally think would help greatly by making more players stick around long enough for them to realise this server is really good.

I appreciate your input - we are working hard to bring a quality world / server to life here. I'm always struggling with BUILDING/SCRIPTING/DOCUMENTING the module, then PROMOTING, and DMing - ack! I do get a bit swamped and something has to give. I'm doing what I can to make things more efficient here, so my time is spent most productively and in the areas that only I can work in - by recruiting and orienteering new DMs for example. The more DMs I have the less I have to DM - so free more time for other stuff.

I encourage all the PLAYERS here to help out and POST the good word about ArgentumRegio on other forums to help us reach more players. We are growing by 50 new PLAYERS a month atm, and more than half of those do return visits. I completely agree the more PLAYERS logged at any time the more PLAYERS want to join. When you PLAYERS help promote the site/server, it too frees more of my time.

Just FYI, on the BUILD side of my plate, atm I'm spreading more DM encounters (those that trigger when no DM is online to fill things in more while not getting in the DMs way), adding more of our new merchangs (replacing old and adding whole new ones), culling objects no longer needed (obsoleted) and streamlining the Areas for load/storage optimum efficiency (on a daily basis, I cull nearly 2 megabytes from module size while changing nothing in terms of play... atm the module is 1100+ areas 180 megabytes in size and loads in under ten minutes).

A note on the module and size - this is built to be separated... areas are being tested together now, but will be split out into two or three modules when we are done here - a sort of underdarkish one, an other planar one, the main dohral/ArgentumRegio one, another for farther regions of the AR world, etc.. That said, it is still impressive to see 1100 plus areas play so nicely together. Very Happy

Keep sounding off. But understand, we can't do everything everyone asks - we listen to all requests, we weigh each one with care, those that fit best with all we have, those that improve what we have, those that are scriptable without sending the coders to a pharmacy for nerve tonic, those are the ones that get adopted. The rest become 'food for thought' and as time marches on, and scripting adapts too, some of those are hauled out, modified and added too. Know that I'm SLOW to change things and always try to get a broad set of inputs before making sweeping changes. Always, be patient with us - together, with time, we all make the world better.

Be well. Game on.
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