Equipment Durability - Refining an important system (please read)

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Equipment Durability - Refining an important system (please read)

Post  AdaonGP on Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:52 am

The item durability system on this server is unique, I've not seen anything like it implemented on another module. Though to be fair, it is common amongst RPG games which I have been playing as long as I can remember. That being said, I have some issues with the way it is implemented on this server. Primarily, the idea that the durability of my items continues to wane even if I'm not doing anything. I understand that durability is meant to add another level of realism to armor; Metal corrodes and rusts over time, leather gets worn down, boots fall apart after being walked and run in for so long. But I am always vexed to see my PC sit there at a bar, not moving at all, and his boots HP continue to drop. In my specific case, I'm a halfling soo....often my feet don't even touch the ground when I sit. Additionally, even when I am running about, traversing dungeons, what have you, my small size would contribute to less overall wear and tear than that of, say, a human. I haven't played a human so I can't know for sure if they both lose durability at the same speed, but it seems as though the durability drops at a rather rapid pace.

Now I know that there are ways these things can be repaired, but insofar as I've seen, there are not many readily-accessible ways to do so. Repairing on your own requires crafting skill which is often not useful for a given class outside of this specific instance. In reality, there would be any number of tradesmen offering their skills to keep your gear in tip-top shape, the cost obviously reflected in the materials involved and the overall quality of item. In keeping with the realism theme of this server, I would imagine that the bowyer would repair bows, cobbler repair boots, etc etc. I understand that there are plans to have merchants capable of these repairs, so I'm not sure just how easy it will be to have your items repaired. I just want to stress the importance of this option. Especially given that eventually the availability of magic items will decrease, it is going to be important to the overall gameplay experience that the durability is a factor, but not a problem.

A good example would be with a pair of Boots of Speed that I had. Having haste makes travelling from point A to point B much easier and much less tedious. In any persistent world MMO, travelling is very often a mundane and overbearing part of the game. Though this server has the (very helpful and much appreciated) magic carpets and portals, for any PC who is not a mage with the teleport ability, there will be a lot of running through mundane area after mundane area just to get to their goals. Needless to say, having these boots vastly improved my gameplay experience. Unfortunately, within a few days the durability had dwindled down to less than 100, and I was forced to stow them away until they could be repaired. I couldn't find any other players with craft armor skill, nor could I find a merchant who offered his services in fixing my boots. Though I grew accustomed once again to walking slowly, it seemed incredibly arbitrary that this item became unusable other than VERY short trips from one point to another, usually only within one area for fear of losing the boots forever.

Now I understand that some of these missing options are in works to be implemented, and in that respect it is less a suggestion and more a proposition for discussion. I'm curious to hear how other people feel about this system and its implementation.

One other point I will add, I read a post by Oda somewhere that described the Dohral Taxman as a way to take players' money in counter to the many ways they could earn it. This I understand, it becomes pointless having a bunch of rich PC's walking about, as well as dulling certain valuable aspects of RP in respect to motivation and social stature between PC's. For that very reason, despite how much money Myles has, I tend to RP him as not being wealthy, and always in need of seeking out new treasure and coin. Sure, this could just be construed as simple greed (not a bad assumption), but I leave that up to the other players. Having a number of repair-capable merchants along with a realistic durability system is an excellent way to manage the give-and-take aspect of money on a server. That is not to suggest that to cost should be prohibitive, because that makes a useful system once again tedious. But reasonably priced repairs required at certain regular intervals, and based off of realistic circumstances (I.E. battle and use, as opposed to simply time) helps to keep a server economy balanced as well as maintaining both realism and enjoyment for players.

Long read, I know. It is something I feel rather strongly about. I'll sum up my key points.

-Make durability related to USE and not to TIME, I.E. Boots wear down only when walking/running/jumping, armor wears down possibly -slowly- over time, but mainly when in adverse environments (damp caves, water, etc). POSSIBLE CAVEAT: Also include race as a factor. A half-orc is going to be heavier, is going to sweat more, therefore boots would wear out faster than a halfling or even an elf, who are smaller, fleeter of foot, etc. This is getting VERY specific but takes realism to a new level.

-Make repair-capable NPC's readily available to the PC, while maintaining the proper professions (I.E. only Bowyers can fix bows, Armorers armor, etc etc)

-Keep repair costs reasonable, corresponding with the quality of the item in question. This is a big factor in maintaining flow in an online economy. Repairing items should not crush a player's wallet, but it should be an important consideration in budgeting.

Looking forward to thoughts from others.
avatar
AdaonGP
Posting Knave

Male Number of posts : 74
Age : 28
Location : Boston
Registration date : 2010-10-12

Character sheet
Character Name: Myles Wallskipper
Race: Halfling
Overall Level: 21

Back to top Go down

Re: Equipment Durability - Refining an important system (please read)

Post  eve_of_disaster on Wed Oct 20, 2010 1:37 pm

I just think that boots don't have enough hitpoints the way they are worn down to nothing. Its way too fast from the 2000 hitpoints to 0. And fixing them requires enchanting them - which took a while to figure out. I think also they shouldn't be worn down when the pc is standing still or otherwise doing nothing. But a good idea would be to altogether make them more durable. 20 000 hitpoints rather than 2000. Thing is that the winter boots and similar boots have 20 000 but all magic boots you can find have only 2000. Shouldn't the mage who enchanted the boots in the first place have used a pair of the cheap durable boots, rather than the cheap boots that break really fast?
avatar
eve_of_disaster
Forum Courtier

Female Number of posts : 340
Location : Sweden
Registration date : 2010-03-30

Character sheet
Character Name:
Race: Human
Overall Level: 40

Back to top Go down

Re: Equipment Durability - Refining an important system (please read)

Post  AdaonGP on Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:35 pm

I understand where you are coming from, but to add such a high durability would undermine repairs' effect on the economic aspect. I can't stress enough how important it is to maintain balance in a persistent world economy - not just for a sense of realism but in order to regulate the rate at which adventurers build their wealth. If you don't have ways of forcing players to spend their money, then they will simply earn and earn and earn, making the value of money worthless. If you're level 10 and never have to worry about spending/losing coin other than the taxman, which admittedly can be significant - stole 60% of my 50k platinum once, it will make money seem pointless. Sure the taxman will take a lot of money from you, but he is fairly easy to avoid, and him being the main drain on a PC's wallet will get old VERY fast for anyone, as there is no return to the player. On the other hand, regular repairs (say every 3, 4, 5 RL days depending on how low you let your gear get) will constantly keep the gold/platinum coming back to the system while at least letting the players feel like it's gone to a good place, because they are maintaining their precious armors.

Setting durability so high seems like a Beta move to me - I.E. a "right-now" move to counter to the lack of repair-ready NPC's. But that is a stopgap solution and again, It will devalue the money in the game, which in the long run (TRUST ME) will cut down on the sense of accomplishment associated with selling items and finding gold on adventures. It makes more sense to simply make repairs readily available (to those who cannot craft themselves) so that the economy can start flowing in a balanced way before beta ends, otherwise how will you be able to test the proper rates of spending/accumulation of money?

If players have the option to repair for a reasonable price, then that 2000 durability will not seem so bad, as it will be plenty of time to let you adventure for days and repair in your spare time. Additionally, regular boots having 20,000 durability makes sense because they have no actual stat or skill benefit and therefore are really not worth repairing; you can simply wear them to death and get another pair. It is also believable that those same HIGHLY DURABLE normal boots have become more delicate due to the stresses of imbuing them with magic, i.e. a logical explanation why they need to be repaired more often.

Important Note to Oda, Erin, and any other scripters - I realize that some of my ideas may already be in the works for implementation. I simply ask that you read my COMPLETE thoughts, as I feel a lot of these NUANCES are just important as the overarching concepts, i.e. repair-capable NPC's which I have heard from the horse's mouth are already planned for inclusion.
avatar
AdaonGP
Posting Knave

Male Number of posts : 74
Age : 28
Location : Boston
Registration date : 2010-10-12

Character sheet
Character Name: Myles Wallskipper
Race: Halfling
Overall Level: 21

Back to top Go down

Re: Equipment Durability - Refining an important system (please read)

Post  GM_ODA on Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:20 pm

We LOVE feedback, keep the comments on this topic coming in, we DO read them all.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
avatar
GM_ODA
Forum Oracle

Male Number of posts : 2681
Location : USA East Coast
Registration date : 2008-10-17

Character sheet
Character Name: Firkin Alechugger
Race: Dwarf
Overall Level: 11

http://playnwn.hopto.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Equipment Durability - Refining an important system (please read)

Post  eve_of_disaster on Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:20 am

AdaonGP wrote:
If players have the option to repair for a reasonable price, then that 2000 durability will not seem so bad, as it will be plenty of time to let you adventure for days and repair in your spare time. Additionally, regular boots having 20,000 durability makes sense because they have no actual stat or skill benefit and therefore are really not worth repairing; you can simply wear them to death and get another pair. It is also believable that those same HIGHLY DURABLE normal boots have become more delicate due to the stresses of imbuing them with magic, i.e. a logical explanation why they need to be repaired more often.

Aha! But you didn't consider the possibility that I may enchant those boots with 20k durability! xD

I had a pair of boots with 20k durability, +6 ac dodge and some other stuff that I made on my own. It didn't seem to affect the durability in a bad way at all. In fact the 20k boots were probably about the best thing on the server. Sadly they disappeared when my bankvault got whiped for inexplicable reasons. :/
avatar
eve_of_disaster
Forum Courtier

Female Number of posts : 340
Location : Sweden
Registration date : 2010-03-30

Character sheet
Character Name:
Race: Human
Overall Level: 40

Back to top Go down

Re: Equipment Durability - Refining an important system (please read)

Post  AdaonGP on Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:04 pm

@ Eve: Well if that's the case, then you answered the question to your own problem, didn't you?

@ Oda: Thank you, but I am curious to hear your thoughts as well.
avatar
AdaonGP
Posting Knave

Male Number of posts : 74
Age : 28
Location : Boston
Registration date : 2010-10-12

Character sheet
Character Name: Myles Wallskipper
Race: Halfling
Overall Level: 21

Back to top Go down

Re: Equipment Durability - Refining an important system (please read)

Post  eve_of_disaster on Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:13 am

AdaonGP wrote:@ Eve: Well if that's the case, then you answered the question to your own problem, didn't you?

@ Oda: Thank you, but I am curious to hear your thoughts as well.

Those enchantments arn't cheap! I had to get a genie wish to supply me with raw materials for that enchantment... <.<'
avatar
eve_of_disaster
Forum Courtier

Female Number of posts : 340
Location : Sweden
Registration date : 2010-03-30

Character sheet
Character Name:
Race: Human
Overall Level: 40

Back to top Go down

Re: Equipment Durability - Refining an important system (please read)

Post  Khaos1987 on Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:42 am

I really don't mind the system myself. I mean my first thoughts on having my boots run ragged is to take them to a cobbler and pay him a bit of silver to fix them back up good as new. Granted you can't do that, but I think that would be a good system to add. Then it's all on you if you don't have the time/money to fix up your boots, they deserve to fall apart.
avatar
Khaos1987
Posting Knave

Male Number of posts : 91
Age : 30
Location : USA
Registration date : 2010-10-21

Character sheet
Character Name: Kross
Race: Human
Overall Level:

Back to top Go down

Re: Equipment Durability - Refining an important system (please read)

Post  Ragdoll_Knight on Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:11 pm

I have an idea, allow the players to make their own boots, which can be enchanted, and the scripts take a look at skill and material, applies a quality, and that quality will determine the max HP of the item, this can be applied to any item, since I've made a suit of chainmail with Poor quality, and one with Average, and seen no difference between them.
avatar
Ragdoll_Knight
Forum Sage

Male Number of posts : 874
Age : 26
Location : Nampa, Idaho, USA
Registration date : 2010-03-02

Character sheet
Character Name: Tony
Race: Human
Overall Level: 32

Back to top Go down

Re: Equipment Durability - Refining an important system (please read)

Post  GM_ODA on Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:53 pm

Friends,
We have refined the system for item durability and wear and are seeking fresh feedback on the matter. Please do sound off here.



_________________
Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
playnwn.com
96.31.77.127 NWN server requires cep2.1+
24x7 we bring the game.
avatar
GM_ODA
Forum Oracle

Male Number of posts : 2681
Location : USA East Coast
Registration date : 2008-10-17

Character sheet
Character Name: Firkin Alechugger
Race: Dwarf
Overall Level: 11

http://playnwn.hopto.org/

Back to top Go down

Re: Equipment Durability - Refining an important system (please read)

Post  Animayhem on Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:59 pm

Could you post the changes made here?

What is most frustratting was the three different messages you got when you put the item in a stump, anvil or use the runestone.

Things would vanish without warning
avatar
Animayhem
Forum Oracle

Number of posts : 2206
Registration date : 2010-07-11

Character sheet
Character Name: Charia/Arys
Race: Half-Elf
Overall Level: 30/30

Back to top Go down

Re: Equipment Durability - Refining an important system (please read)

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum