Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

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Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  Valerion on Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:46 pm

Hello everybody, here you can write about anything that bothers you about plots, events, DM's in of constructic criticism, post what you like, what you do not like and then maybe suggestions what you would prefer to the things you do not like, best to keep it short but informative.

Have fun and GAME ON!
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  DM Drachen on Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:55 pm

What I would like to see; Less vampires. There are so many about at the moment, it just seems silly.
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  Valerion on Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:40 pm

I can agree to that, we need less PC Vampires, and if possible, smaller events, this "We save the world" plot is getting quite tiring, and too complex, for for every one major force that is acting there could a complete plotstring be made, though now we have a great chaos of plot, with 4 major evil sides and numerous others, and no beginning and no end, every new player I saw was quite confused when entering the whole thing. It is hard for new players to catch on on such plots.

I believe if we had a lot of smaller plotstrings, smaller events, easier to look over and not half the time with NPC's you cannot kill without high level or NPC help, we'd have a lot much more fun or rather less confusion and frustration while RPing.
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  Animayhem on Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:23 pm

The smaller sub plots are nice. The DMs have done well to try an accomedate so people do not feel left out. What needs to be done on the player side is to try an help the plot along.
If you happen to have more then one character either in the plot or outside the plot decide which one you wish to play and play for awhile and do not quickly switch from one to another.
If you wish to swtich try and rp a way out or if not send an ooc message saying you are swtiching.

Another reason for the many plots is that not everyone can come on everytime at the same time so the dms have to juggle. We are all experienced rpers and can have rp and adventures not related to any plots.
The Dms try and spend some time with a player or group of players.

I do agree some of the NPC high but they can be defeated in groups.

DMS are players to, so we need to respect if they want to be human rather than gods Smile
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  DM Drachen on Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:21 pm

Valerion wrote: if possible, smaller events, this "We save the world" plot is getting quite tiring, and too complex, for for every one major force that is acting there could a complete plotstring be made, though now we have a great chaos of plot, with 4 major evil sides and numerous others, and no beginning and no end, every new player I saw was quite confused when entering the whole thing. It is hard for new players to catch on on such plots.

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Enjoy.

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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  GM_ODA on Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:03 am

Animayhem wrote:
1) The smaller sub plots are nice.
2) Another reason for the many plots is that not everyone can come on every time at the same time so the DMs have to juggle.
3) We are all experienced RPers and can have RP and adventures not related to any plots.
4) The DMs try and spend some time with a player or group of players.

The above I thought were noteworthy points, worth some pontification.

1) DMs who want ideas for 'spur of the moment' adventures should review the section on 'Instant Adventures' in the DM Docs, it is a short section that is chock-a-block full of ideas a DM can draw from and implement here with ease.

2) DMs are encouraged to run events that fall into the "one session and done" category when running 'spur of the moment' adventures. DMs are encouraged to plan for logical breaks in the action of larger (multi-session) plots where PCs would ICly be able to break from the party/action/plot - especially where such logical breaks allow for similarly IC 'entries' for both returning and newly added PCs ... THIS IS A TALL ORDER and not always possible, but with practice it becomes easier such as by steering the party to a popular camping site, tavern or town. DMs will generally find it better to run adventures that don't require a specific PC than those which do require a specific PC for completion. DMs desiring to run multi-session adventures are urged to try to do so by scheduling the event in advance as by the calendar function of this forum, but especially by the scheduling features of neverwinterconnections.com . In doing things this way you will be able to catch up the 'impulse/opportunity' PLAYERS who log in when they are able, an also the PLAYERS whose schedules allow for play at regular intervals (such as weekly events).

3) Our tools are keen for this sort of thing; use the Immersion Tools (DMs use your Troublemaker) to ascertain some character trait of the dominant PC or PCs in a group, and use what you learn to draw the PARTY into suitable mini-plots. Examples of such are,

Dominant PC is greedy; lure them with tales / rumors of wealth.
Dominant PC is fearless/foolhardy/conceited/narcissistic; appeal to the party with tales / rumors of 'opportunities to be heroes'.
Dominant PC is spendthrift or obsessed with 'nice things'; appeal to the party with tales of marketplaces requiring travel (danger, here they come!).
Red herring is ALWAYS on the menu too.

These uses of PC character traits allows the DM many options for directions in which to use as leverage to start a PARTY on a mini-plot. Of course, the PCs involved may not take the bait, so be prepared to offer multiple such 'baits' and let the PARTY pick the adventure that lures them most.

4) I am glad to hear the DMs are able to cover multiple parties - we are doing our best to grow a good crop of DMs and provide enough DMs to cover your adventuring needs.

KUDOS to our DMs!!! You are doing a good job of it folks. We all appreciate that your tasks are doubly difficult as we work through the bugs, adjust/add tools and features. Keep on growing with us folks - Eriniel and I appreciate and applaud your craft.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

P.S. and the Red Herring is always fresh too.
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  BobbyBrown15 on Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:49 pm

I would like to make a point that recently came to my attention. Not all players know if something is a bug or not, or if something is not allowed without permission right away "unless they are told so first". If a player does not know beforehand and you do not tell them about it as a warning they will not know to not do it. And you cannot just assume they do know either unless you have seen them doing it and warned them. Just something that came to my attention with some recent events. If one of the DMs or any players want to ask me specifically PM me, i will not put it out publicly for my own reasons.
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  DM Drachen on Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:55 pm

BobbyBrown15 wrote:I would like to make a point that recently came to my attention. Not all players know if something is a bug or not, or if something is not allowed without permission right away "unless they are told so first". If a player does not know beforehand and you do not tell them about it as a warning they will not know to not do it. And you cannot just assume they do know either unless you have seen them doing it and warned them. Just something that came to my attention with some recent events. If one of the DMs or any players want to ask me specifically PM me, i will not put it out publicly for my own reasons.

Good decision, Bobby. That is also a good viewpoint and tip to post, I'm sure that will be appreciated.
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  prinny c on Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:06 pm

It is nice when we can run events based off the players suggestions. But remember good RP is welcomed, and its really fun. But there are also rules that are followed by the players and dms. Punishments are just as fair as Rewards. A large majority are Playing well, reporting issues / bugs. But there are still a few that like to Grind, meta game, powerlevel, and exploit bugs. IE Im going to keep going back to area A because there are unlimmited amounts of Said creature to kill that gives me 90-1000 xp repeatedly and gain X amounts of levels as quick as I can isnt reporting a bug. Some people complain way to much that there caught doing things they know they shouldnt.
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  Valerion on Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:22 pm

Here we go again *rollseyes*
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  Animayhem on Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:37 am

prinny c wrote: Some people complain way to much that there caught doing things they know they shouldnt.


Valerion wrote:
Here we go again *rollseyes*

Dm's here for the most part are even handed. If you are told and action is not permitted or an area is off limits, please respect the dms request and do not repeat the action or go back to the area especially of no dms or on or the dm who told you is not. If you have a question or concern, you can always pm another dm or oda for verification. Rules have a purpose and yes sometimes we chafe at them however this world also allows for questions concerning such and possible changes.

Also remember too ,no matter who you are dm,admin player that we need to treat each other with respect and not let the heat of something which happened cloud are reason. Step back, take a deep breath, write it down on paper set it aside reread it. Then if it needs to be said write it in the forum in a logical manner.

Also remember this is a game and not life, people come here to relax and forget their rl troubles for a bit. Oda has made this for the love of NWN and rp and is not mandating a fee to play.

Take the time and smell the scripts here. Smile
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  DM Drachen on Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:00 am

Animayhem wrote:



Dm's here for the most part are even handed. If you are told and action is not permitted or an area is off limits, please respect the dms request and do not repeat the action or go back to the area especially of no dms or on or the dm who told you is not. If you have a question or concern, you can always pm another dm or oda for verification. Rules have a purpose and yes sometimes we chafe at them however this world also allows for questions concerning such and possible changes.

Also remember too ,no matter who you are dm,admin player that we need to treat each other with respect and not let the heat of something which happened cloud are reason. Step back, take a deep breath, write it down on paper set it aside reread it. Then if it needs to be said write it in the forum in a logical manner.

Also remember this is a game and not life, people come here to relax and forget their rl troubles for a bit. Oda has made this for the love of NWN and rp and is not mandating a fee to play.

Take the time and smell the scripts here. Smile

Animayhem is hitting it spot on guys. I think if everyone just listens to this post everyone will be much happier and be able to enjoy the server better and have more fun.
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  Shar on Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:24 am

Valerion wrote:I can agree to that, we need less PC Vampires, and if possible, smaller events, this "We save the world" plot is getting quite tiring, and too complex, for for every one major force that is acting there could a complete plotstring be made, though now we have a great chaos of plot, with 4 major evil sides and numerous others, and no beginning and no end, every new player I saw was quite confused when entering the whole thing. It is hard for new players to catch on on such plots.

I believe if we had a lot of smaller plotstrings, smaller events, easier to look over and not half the time with NPC's you cannot kill without high level or NPC help, we'd have a lot much more fun or rather less confusion and frustration while RPing.

I have personally been attempting to use this as a model for my dming ,weather or not it has actually been noticed. My plots (even since the void plot ended) have been small scale things that are usually centered around one pc as the "hero".

Examples.

Linettas past : lenetta found her family and origens and even got into some minor conflict along the way.

Tivooks cave : not really a plot.. just rping out a "scary being" that toys with people who enter the cave.

The Perfect machine : An eccentric but ingeniousness gnome wants to build a machine that he thinks will allow him to learn everything. will you help him achieve his goal?

Confession is good for the soul : a player has been bound to a succubus to pay for a hanious crime he committed. but as the spirits of the dead torment him, he wonders if there is another reason.


None of these have been "End of the world" plots. I personalty believe that a good mix is about 85% minor stuff 14.5% big stuff and 0.5% world changing plots. i made my first plot a world changer because at the time i was the only active DM and i wanted to test both myself and the way that players reacted to & liked my plots.

Also, i generally read my pm's daily so if anyone has an issue with me or the plots i run specifically i would ask that you respectfully use that to contact me about it. I respect you all and i ask that you extend the same.public critizem only causes tension between you and the Dm you want to talk to and often causes one side or the other to "dig there heels in" because it feels like a personal attack.


Dm's here for the most part are even handed. If you are told and action is not permitted or an area is off limits, please respect the dms request and do not repeat the action or go back to the area especially of no dms or on or the dm who told you is not. If you have a question or concern, you can always pm another dm or oda for verification. Rules have a purpose and yes sometimes we chafe at them however this world also allows for questions concerning such and possible changes.

Also remember too ,no matter who you are dm,admin player that we need to treat each other with respect and not let the heat of something which happened cloud are reason. Step back, take a deep breath, write it down on paper set it aside reread it. Then if it needs to be said write it in the forum in a logical manner.

Also remember this is a game and not life, people come here to relax and forget their rl troubles for a bit. Oda has made this for the love of NWN and rp and is not mandating a fee to play.

Take the time and smell the scripts here.

Best advice ever...
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  Valerion on Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:33 pm

In this spot I must say Shar, you until now are the best example for a DM doing small scale things, which still looked like big scale ones, you were able to overlook them, understand, and yet with minor deed feel like doing a lot. Which is in my eyes one of the ways to be a PERFECT DM although one always can work on himself.

I thank you for that Shar and can simply say, you did a good job!
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  Valerion on Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:08 pm

Ok here my plea, one last time, DM's stop those damn armageddon big events and plots, this is just getting ridiculous, the new players cannot catch up, the size of this is getting far too big, damnit we are still in beta test and things are going down as if the end of the world is coming, throttle the speed guys, REALLY!

One more point, dear DM's take more time to RP things out, do not simply make someone attack or do something without the slightes hint of something. When you make someone attack through some kind of mind influence, give the Players a hint oocly or Icly I do not care but being attacked out of the blue by a DM controlled character just leads to misunderstandings, I almost believed today Penguin was breaking the PvP rules like hell, if not for him and Badger clearing things up I was about to report, and then would have reported a DM action he had no power over.

For EVERYONE, refrain from making pure PvP builds, it is coold to have a maxed out character in his fighting ability, yet it is really annoying to see people stealing the show from everyone because they prefer more RP orientated builds.

As a small example Monks, alone the word Monk says it has to do with some kind of belief or religion, yet all we have are martial artist on this server, almost unbeatable and without an actuall belief or philosophy following, it is fun to have a great fighting class I understand hat, but at least RP them out as what they are, MONKS and not some kind of Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee clones with superpowers.

So much for my two cents for today, good day and good roleplay to you all!
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  prinny c on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:29 pm

Monk assassins are common in alot of areas. Not to mention that there are way to many "Evil" aligned characters running around acting good. And show me anywhere its posted that in a PVP area you have to say hey im going to run up and attack you. Its sort of like running around randomly using Turn undead just because you know its going to kill them instantly instead of "Playing it out". I mean Everyone tries to make it the best we can but not everything is going to happen how you like it, sorry it just doesnt some times. So just go with the flow sometimes and stop complaining about every small detail that happens just because you dont like it. When Val would Kill off "Bosses" in one hit you didnt seem to mind at all when you rushed in. Just because you dont have a powerhouse player ATM you really need to learn to relaxe and enjoy. I mean yes RP is big and everyone does it. But if someone suddenly snaps or is being possessed, or an evil PC attacks you for being good its bound to happen eventually. Remember we try to make things fun for everyone and so far everyones getting little events around them so when the slightly bigger ones happen to involve everyone if you dont like it you dont have to participate.
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  Animayhem on Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:43 pm

To tell people to stop making powerbuilds is unfair as Valerion would be concidered one. RP is the thing and you cannot win everytime. People come here to relax and be things they are not.
To publicly blame a dm(s) specificly in public is bad form. As was said you do not have to participate in PVP you can rp your way out of it. You can not be involved in all rp all the time and to force your way into it is bad form as well. I have come on and rp was going on if a dm was on I would ask if too late if it was no big deal and usually a dm would make a little side fun or even if they did not i did other things based on my characters rp. Yesterday rp was built around the death of your dwarf.
Respect other players time and characters and respect the dms and admins.
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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  Valerion on Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:53 am

I hate this damn language barrier, I did not intend to "blame" or "offend" anyone, nor did I want to complain, this is only meant as constructive criticism, after all such is only a suggestion and noone has to follow it or listen to it, nothing more, please to not interpret more into it than there is, remember I am german, and some sentences may make a different sense to me than to you, I am trying my best but I cannot always guarantee a full 100% understanding. Please keep that in mind thank you very much.

Also it is bad form to hold old mistakes up to the face of the one who did them when he has learned and refrained from them, and I will not start a discussion about this here in the criticism and suggestions thread.

About the PvP stuff, I just wanted to avoid misunderstandings, because as far as I understood it, when we do PvP, we should warn the person either ICly or OOCly, at least that is what I was told when I once attacked one with Valerion due to them taunting him, and getting a bloody nose by a DM then, *months ago can't remember the DM, maybe Badger, not sure*
That is because I was so confused about yesterday, so no hard feelings at all.

Charia, I was involved in the "RP" because I only stood there rping with Vashan, so I did not force my way in but got that RP coming like a wave over me, and try to RP your way out when you are just being killed and then laying there...
No hard feelings, I am not complaining just explaining that this part of your post was redundant and unneccessary.

Anyway that dwarf was a redshirt, a character MADE to generate RP for you guys on my costs of time, as it did, and good RP I hope for everyone.

I have to leave now, I will edit this post later when I am back this evening * 8 hours from now*, for now I hope it makes sense and the post is not too chaotic or unsorted in its built I wish everyone a good day....or night..or...whatever.




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Re: Criticism and suggestions for the DM's

Post  Badgers_Revolt on Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:35 pm

PVP should be properly RPed, and accepted. Though, even if it is accepted. There should be a few moments to react. So, an emote before the PVP is always best. I will state that the PVP, was not intended on my side.

I also may state, their is no DM uber builds. We have to play the game when on as a PC just as any player. If a DM is abusing their powers by upping their build through DM spawned weapons and DM stat changes. It will be dealt with.

THE ONLY TIME A DM CAN MESS WITH THEIR BUILD. IS WHEN THEY ARE USING A UNSUPPORTED RACE. I.E Fairy Dragons, Undead, etc. And, those builds should in all ways match what a normal PC race would have for such.

As to the this.



I was told when I once attacked one with Valerion due to them taunting him, and getting a bloody nose by a DM then, *months ago can't remember the DM, maybe Badger, not sure*

I would have had the Badgers of Mercy and Judgment, see to such. Razz So, if their was no Badgers it was not me.

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