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Changing Shifter Requirements.

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Changing Shifter Requirements. Empty Changing Shifter Requirements.

Post  Elgate Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:40 am

I know we won't be adding or changing classes for a while yet, but one thing that always bothers me is that the shapeshifter class depends on the druid class- when shapeshifters often have forms, opinions or practices that don't mesh with druidic values at all.

In 'Master of the Wilds', 3.00/3.5 the requirements for becoming a shapeshifter were:
Feats: Alertness, Endurance.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level spells.
Special: Alternate Form—must either know polymorph
self or have a natural alternate form, alter self, polymorph
self, shapechange, or wild shape ability

In NwN the requirements are: Alertness and Wildshape.


But if it's possible, can the class be altered to allow for:
Any character with the 'shapechanger' subtype to become a shifter (as this would cover lycanthropes who have 'a natural alternate form'.)
Polymorph Self: Rangers with level 4 spells (Eg, lvl 15 ranger?), Sorcs/Wizards with level 4 spells (level 8 sorcs, level 7 wizards?). Also, clerics with animal domain 5 (level 9 clerics) but I'm not sure how hard it would be to script it to look for specific domains.
Shapechange: Would already be covered as druids and wizards would know wildshape/polymorph self before getting shapechange.

This would me then that:
Lycanthropes (Or other shapechangers)
Rangers over lvl 15
Sorcs over level 8
Wizards over level 5
And Druids over level 5 (Wildshape)

Can all become shifters, opening up the class to being something other than a confusing druid prestige class, and adding a lot more interest to it.

I don't know if this can be done, or if the requirements need to be reduced rather than specified so that any character over level 5 with alertness can become a shifter with 'dm approval' , so that the DM can check for these things and go 'yeup'.

I was just musing over this between doing essays- Hope to catch up with you guys soon!
Elgate
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Post  Valerion Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:09 am

Yeah, tho I think Lycans should be limited to their lycanthropy, it is called a "curse" for a reason, since it limits them more than it frees them, a lycon shapeshifter...ugh, balance problems incoming I guess^^.
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Post  Shar Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:42 am

I agree with val on this... Lycanthropy is already taken to lightly and its supposed to be a curse not a blessing.


Other than that... You would have to ask erin but sadly i think its hardcoaded into the game.
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Post  Elgate Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:14 am

Oh, that is a point.

Technically, it's already fully possible to be a lycanthropic shapeshifter. (And we have a few characters who are). What happens at the moment is that occasional stat boost transfer across morphs, but things like lycon regen don't. (I'm not sure if silver does less damage while morphed- it just seems to do a heck of a lot of damage anyway.)

However, currently we have it where it's possible for a shapeshifter to become a lycan, but not for a lycan to become a shifter- which ironically seems to be the wrong way round, depending on what versions we want to go with. The 3.5 'master of many forms' states that an epic shifter cannot be affected by transmutations unwillingly. But that's only an epic shifter and only one version. Currently, shapeshifter are pretty immune to unwanted transmutation effects anyway. They just shift out of them.

But lycanthropes are pretty powerful, and if open to any lycanthrope, then shifter can be added onto -any- class, depending on the lycanthropes alignment and race. So potentially over powered.

Btw, here are the two versions of shifters to compare: The 3.5 edition does only state wildshape. Now, this doesn't neccesarily mean 'druids only' but seeing as I don't know any other class that has wildshape... well. However the 3.5 edition implies things like 'this class is great for any spell caster who has experienced shapechanging' but then goes 'but we only want those with wildshape', and then says things like 'maybe they worship dopplegangers?'. So.. it still doesn't seem like it's a druid only class, but the requirements made it like that.


Here's the 3.0 'Shifter' in Master of the wilds: wrote:"The shifter’s path is ideal for a spellcaster of any race who has experienced shapeshifting and yearns for more of it. Such a character can be a great force for either good or ill in the world; an evil shifter in particular poses a terrible threat, for she can appear anywhere, in any form. The same opponents may face her again and again, in one shape after another, never realizing that they actually face a single, formless enemy."
Hit Die: d8.

Requirements
To become a shifter, a character must fulfill the following criteria:
Feats: Alertness, Endurance.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level spells.
Special: Alternate Form—must either know polymorph self or have a natural alternate form, alter self, polymorph self, shapechange, or wild shape ability

Class Skills
The shifter’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Animal Empathy (Cha, exclusive skill), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (any) (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Wilderness Lore (Wis). See Chapter 4 of the Player’s Handbook for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Class Features
The following are class features of the shifter prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Shifters gain no weapon or armor proficiencies.
Gr Greater eater Wild Shape hape (Sp): Beginning at 1st level, the shifter can take the form of another creature. Greater wild shape works like wild shape, with the following exceptions. As she rises in level, the shifter gains the ability to assume the forms of creatures with types other than animal (see Table 5–15 for details), though she cannot
choose a form that normally has more Hit Dice than she herself does. She can designate at the time of the change which pieces of her equipment meld into her new form
and which do not. Nonmelded equipment alters its size to match that of her new form, but retains its functionality. The shifter cannot, however, use any equipment
unless she has either an appropriate appendage or a magical means of compensating for the lack of one. Any piece of equipment that is separated from her reverts to its original form.

At 1st level, the shifter is limited to humanoid forms of Small and Medium-size. Thereafter, she can use greater wild shape two more times per day for every two shifter levels she gains, and her range of available creature sizes and types increases as shown on Table 5–15. When she gains the ability to adopt an undead shape at 5th level, she may become incorporeal if she chooses the form of a creature with that subtype. If the shifter already has the wild shape ability from another class, she may convert her uses per day of wild shape to uses per day of greater wild shape on a one-for-one basis. She may also mix and match the benefits of the two abilities as desired to gain the
maximum advantage for any daily use. Thus, a Drd8/ shifter1 has up to four uses per day of greater wild shape, and she could use the ability to become a Large humanoid (because an 8th-level druid can become a Large creature and a 1st-level shifter can adopt the form of a humanoid). In the same manner, a Drd8/Shifter2 could become
a Large monstrous humanoid if she wished.

Supernatural Ease: At 6th level, the character’s greater wild shape ability becomes supernatural rather than spell-like. It still requires a standard action and can
be suppressed in an antimagic field, but its use no longer provokes attacks of opportunity and never requires a Concentration check.

Evershifting Form: At 10th level, the shifter has reached the pinnacle of her shapechanging abilities. From this point on, she can use greater wild shape once per round, as a move-equivalent action, as many times per day as she wishes. Her type changes to shapechanger for determining what effects and items can affect her, and she gains darkvision (60 feet), which remains in effect regardless of her form.

In addition, the shifter no longer suffers ability penalties for aging and is not subject to magical aging, though any aging penalties she may already have suffered remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the shifter still dies of old age when her time is up.


From 3.5 Complete Adventurers wrote:A master of many forms has no shape that she calls her own. Instead she occupies whatever body is most expedient for her at the time. While others base their identity largely on their external forms, a master of many forms actually comes closer to her true self through her transformations. Of necessity, her sense of self is based not on her outward form, but on her soul, which is truly the only constant about her. It is the inner strength of her soul that enables her to take on any shape and remember herself within.

The Path of the Master of Many forms is ideal for a spell caster of any race who has experienced shapechanging and yearns for more of it. Such a character can be a force for good or ill in the world. An evil master of many forms in particular poses a terrible threat, for she can appear anywhere, in any body. The same opponent may face her again and again, in one shape after another, never realizing that they are actually facing a single enemy.

NPC Masters of many forms are typically loners, moving between communities of various creatures to suit their whims. They sometimes find work as spies or explorers.

The class description presented here is an updated version of the shifter prestige class that originally appeared in masters of the wild.

Adaptation: Masters of Many forms can be introduced into a campaign in many ways. They might form an elite group of spies and scouts, they might be high-ranking members of a doppleganger-worshiping cut, or they might be a small group of druids who see beauty and power in all of natures forms, not just animals and elementals.

Requirements:
Feats: Alertness, Endurance.
Special: Wildshape class feature.

Class skills:
Climb, Concentration, Craft (any), Diplomacy, Disguise, Handle Animal, Hide, Jump, Knowledge (nature), listen, spot, swim, survival.

Class Features:
Gain no Proficiency in weapons or armour.
Shifter's Speech (Ex): A master of many forms maintains her ability to speak normally (Including verbal components of spells), regardless of the form she takes. Furthermore, she can communicate with other creatures of the same kind while in wild shape, as long as such creatures are normally capable of communicating with each other using natural methods.

Improved WildShape (su): A master of many forms knows how to use her wild shape ability to assume a wider range of forms. At 1st level, she can assume a humanoid form with wildshape. She later gains the ability to assume the form of a giant at 2nd level, monstorus humanoid at 3rd, fey at 4th, vermin at 5th, aberration at 6th, plant at 7th, ooze at 8th, elemental at 9th and dragon at 10th.
The size limit of the shape she can assume also increases as she gains levels. at 2nd level she can assume the for of a large creature, 4th a tiny creature, 6th a huge creature, 8th a diminutive and 10th a gargantuan.
She also gains one additional daily use of her wildshape ability per class level gained.

Fast wild Shape (ex): Starting at 3rd level, a master of many forms can use her wild shape ability as a move action, rather than a standard action.

Extraodinary WIldshape (ex): starting as 7th level, a master of many forms gains the extraordinary special qualities of any form she assumes with wild shape.

Evershifting form: at 10th level a master of many forms has reached the pinnacle of her shapechanging abilities. She gains the shapechanger subtype and becomes immune to any transmutation affect unless she is willing to accept it.

Elgate
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Post  Animayhem Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:47 am

I seem to have read somewhere that there are natural born lycans, ones who were not bitten.

Granted I am not as versed in D+ D lore as most here. Smile
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Post  Elgate Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:05 am

Indeed! There are 'natural' lycans and 'afflicted' lycans in both standard DnD lore and Arg-reg Lore.

So, currently, there's nothing stopping a lycon becoming a shifter. That's already happened, and hasn't caused too much issue.

I think the question now is 'By letting any lycon become a shifter, you open the shifter class to be paired with any other class- How dangerous would Monk/Dwarven Defender/Shifter be? Or a Monk/Shifter/Shadowdancer?"

Also, Shar might be right in that this might not be doable.

As far as I'm aware, you can't do 'This or that' requirements. It's always 'This and That'. So you can't tell it to let a Ranger OR a Wizard, it would be Ranger and Wizard.

The only way I can think of around this is either: DM approval, and let the dm's do the requirement checks. OR, more complicated and fussy, Rangers, Wizards Sorcs, Clerics with animal domain, Druids, (Maybe Lycans) get a 'token feat', that basically says 'you can learn to shapeshift'. And the shifter class's requirements are 'Alertness' and 'Shifter Token Feat'.

It is possible to script a bunch of things for requirements- including needing to complete scripts. So... maybe possible, but fussy, and certainly not high up on the list of 'things to do'.

Another issue is, I'm not sure how dependent the shifter classes scripts are on druidic ones. Will they break if you don't have wild shape, or druid levels? Certainly they interect a lot, but I'm not sure how dependent the actual shifter's codes are on druid codes.
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