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Too Much Twilight....

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Post  Shar Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:38 am

Although i feel bad for posting 2 suggestions my first week i feel that this one is just as important as any that has been made.

I feel that this server is beginning to feel "twilightish" due to the sheer number of vamps/lycans vs. anything else... I feel it would be vastly unfair to remove players that already have been made, however i think the time has come to lock down the subraces for a bit so that no new ones pop up (this includes "turning" players).

Unless more explanation is needed i will try to leave this suggestion at that as i feel that the numbers speak louder than i do.
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Post  Animayhem Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:18 am

I can understand your concern Very Happy but so far I have not had any major problems with these type of characters as the ones I have met have not power played them.
I think the main reason we see a wide variety of these is that this server seems to have taken out most of the quirks in actually playing these types of races.
I play on two other servers and they do not even have these races I am guessing based on the mechanics of the massive scripting.

If you have encounter one of these races and you feel un comfortable or bullied, try and rp out of it or if that does not work send the player a tell or worse case pm Daht or use the dm channel and see if a dm on.
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Post  Shar Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:12 pm

Animayhem wrote:
If you have encounter one of these races and you feel un comfortable or bullied, try and rp out of it or if that does not work send the player a tell or worse case pm Daht or use the dm channel and see if a dm on.

No no.. there is no bullying going on or anything even of that nature. Rather i feel that this is needed because there are more lycans/vamps being played than all other races combined. if every single person is one, well it makes for poor rp if nothing else. both are very hard to play as all vamps & most lycans are considered inherently evil in D&D with no hope for redemption of any sort. Even beyond that, if everyone is playing one it takes away from the aura of mystery that prevails these races.

Now i am not in any way suggesting to remove the PC's that already exist.. that would be both unfair and outright mean in my opinion. i simply think that the numbers need to stop growing for a time as to build up a wider range of PC's (and preserve the RP for the people who already play one).
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Post  heather Tue Jan 17, 2012 1:35 pm

lycons and vampires both have different backrounds on here for the most part.... there is a separate section they both have in the forums for information or other posts and chat just is taking a little while to get the lore out more... but at least for lycons they aren't automatically evil or have the same usual thing they have on most servers

think if you are getting a lycon vs vampire feel you might have been rping with only a small percentage of either group as there is a lot more story than just that, and a lot of times is more location based for what might be happening for something...

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Post  Shar Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:02 pm

I am not putting down the current players or there RP, your misunderstanding my comment's. i think that if it continues with the current trend things will get bad, and RP will go downhill fast. I am just suggesting that no more be made for a while in order to KEEP things from getting bad in the first place.

I think it would be a good idea to keep them rarer in the long run by not letting the numbers grow so fast. I have nothing bad to say about the current players but i am suggesting this to keep a problem from arising to begin with. None who currently plays would be affected as they already have a PC if they wanted one. But you cant deny that a server where 80% of the player population is a Vamp or Lycan would be headed down a slippery slope of inevitable trouble.

I just think if we put some percentage limits down for the future and freeze the current level for a short time it will allow this server to escape the problems that would otherwise pop up.
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Post  GM_ODA Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:59 pm

At this time we are pretty lax about letting PLAYERs play most anything, mostly because we are testing many of the race based systems. I would very much LIKE to see PLAYERs having PCs that are NOT strange races (e.g. the standard ones) in addition to any unusual types they may have - if for no other reason than to maintain setting as a mostly human city. I like and encourage playing unusual races, but please, also play a couple normal types to help round out the server.

Be well. Game on.
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Post  Animayhem Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:27 pm

My feeling is players should play what they feel more comfortable with and can maintain a decent rp. The attraction is most servers you play"norms" hal-orc,half elf ,etc but you do not get all the features you do here. Like myself others may find it hard to play more than one character. My first character A'rys is a human sorceress/fighter who will eventually be 30sorcy/10 fighter a combination I am quite familair with which allowed me to create another character Charia who is a cleric and a half -elf who does not know what her other half is Very Happy but is determined to find out. Just being a cleric is challenge enough for me as I have never played one Very Happy

I agree with Oda though play basic race human, halfing,elf to get the feel of the server then you can always branch out by either killing off your test character or creating another.

Also like some others here, I play on other servers so I have to divide my time as best I can so I chose what I character I can rp even if its a short time.

Plus thos server is still in beta so any problems associated with the subraces can be ironed out. Very Happy


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Post  heather Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:59 pm

too many is a bad thing yeah... if they were all good rpers maybe it wouldn't be quite as bad but there are other races and things out there so the server will never be vampires against lycons with 50% against 50%... kind of hoping myself that a rp group will form up.... did sort of have a little bit of luck once with something myself somewhere but don't know... would be up to the players with what they want to do would think though hopefully maybe a group will form up somewhere or maybe even with the new mercenary guild too

remember to post questions, requests or even your common rp area to see about getting more to rp

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Post  Eriniel Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:39 am

Ok never seen twilight so can't comment on that... However what I've heard in references to it is usually so bad I'm not lightly to try and see...
From Heather's posts I can assume its kinda like Underworld (Lycons vs Vampires)


However as ODA said it would be nice to have more standard races, have met quite a few... but yeah the subraces need their testing too...


Lycons and Vampires have some built-in capping devices, ie...

A big lycanthrope population in an area encourage hunters, these NPCs are tough and armed with Silver weapons, they will capture/kill ones they detect (they usually have a few Transmutation school wizard levels to allow them to detect Lycans regardless of form). Capture usually ends with 50% XP loss on every action. Hunters (can include PCs) get big rewards for such capture.

Another lesser known cap is the difference between natural and infected lycons. A natural one has better regenerative ability and some DR vs Silver. Natural lycons are the most capped since the PC would need a Puppy slot to take the place of. (These slots are made via the yearly quest, hence the cap).


Vampires are subject to the sun itself (painful), then of cause a necromancer with a bit of real power would pose a significant threat Very Happy. Various AIs recognize a vampire (ie paladins/clerics with their Detect Evil/Detect Undead abilities) and will attack with anti-undead spells...


PCs can only bite 3 people max to turn them, and can only turn after a set AGE (not level)...



On the Lycon vs Vampire fighting stuff... Uh well, A vampire feeds on blood but can't digest the blood of lycons. Vampires tend to turn to dust when dead so not really a good meal for a lycon either...

Having said that there are advantages to having a nice big guard dog guarding your coffin during the day... But then who else would be in the market to buy a werewolf. But why attack the dog when the "happy meals on legs" will do the dirty work and get killed in your place.



Last edited by Eriniel on Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post  Shar Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:44 am

Perhaps a good middle ground would simply be to remove the direct ability to turn others into vamps and reserve that ability for a mutually agreed upon quest?

the simple reason for that is because of the multiplication effect that an unregulated system makes for. think of the server having 1000 PC's, with only five being a vamp. the vamps want to make another so 3 of them turn a PC.

3x2=6

some of the resulting 6 want to make more

4x2+6=14

now some of the older vamps & new ones want to make more.

7x2+14=28

and again

20x2+25=65

and again

40x2+65=145

and again

80x2+145=305

This means that under the current system, even if it took a full OOC month to go from 1 vamp to the next; in only 6 months we have achieved 30.5% vamp player-base. we only started with .5%!

Also if the info i have is correct the current percentage is close to 20% population. so run the numbers starting there and you can REALLY see the effect!

From Heather's posts I can assume its kinda like Underworld (Lycons vs Vampires)
no... my little sister watches twilight. Compared to twilight underworld looks cannon.
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Post  MarquisIllusion Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:34 am

Personally, I've always been in favor of the "just the base races unless admin approved" crowd. But given the circumstances, I'm in favor of the "no more new 'special' PCs" suggestion.

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Post  Shar Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:37 am

That wasn't my suggestion.. i suggested a temporary freeze on only those two. The numbers of other stuff is very low and a freeze unneeded Imho.
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Post  Fenguard Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:29 pm

I agree that there are far too many Lycans and Vampires. from what i've seen 3-4 out of every 5 PC's I've encountered are either a lycan or a vampire(Mostly lycans) It's kinda boring to be dealing with the same subraces every time I log on. I strongly agree with the 'must have DM/Admin permission to create either a lycan or a vampire' idea. basicly how I think it should work would be; A player who wants one a lycan or vamp PC would post a request on the forums, with a history of their character(How they became said subrace and their PC's experiences as the subrace up untill the present) and their ideas for how they would go about playing the character on the server.
Then the DMs would have a chance to vote and discuss whether the player should be approved to play the subrace. This way we could weed out those who may want to create one just so they can use it to bully others, and players who don't really know how to RP it effectively, there's also some people who would want one simply because they think the subrace is 'cool' and have no real interest in RPing with it, or are just doing it for the stat bonuses. This would also control the population of the subrace so that we don't have 80%(Or more) of the people on the server playing a lycan or vamp(Like it is now).
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Post  Animayhem Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:35 pm

Fenguard wrote:I agree that there are far too many Lycans and Vampires. from what i've seen 3-4 out of every 5 PC's I've encountered are either a lycan or a vampire(Mostly lycans) It's kinda boring to be dealing with the same subraces every time I log on. I strongly agree with the 'must have DM/Admin permission to create either a lycan or a vampire' idea. basicly how I think it should work would be; A player who wants one a lycan or vamp PC would post a request on the forums, with a history of their character(How they became said subrace and their PC's experiences as the subrace up untill the present) and their ideas for how they would go about playing the character on the server.
Then the DMs would have a chance to vote and discuss whether the player should be approved to play the subrace. This way we could weed out those who may want to create one just so they can use it to bully others, and players who don't really know how to RP it effectively, there's also some people who would want one simply because they think the subrace is 'cool' and have no real interest in RPing with it, or are just doing it for the stat bonuses. This would also control the population of the subrace so that we don't have 80%(Or more) of the people on the server playing a lycan or vamp(Like it is now).

I play on a server like that though your character no matter what the race has to have an approved bio and another you need to have approval or get enough noterity for your character to achieve it.
The secons oe I had asked one of the admins and they said I would have to have my character earn it by in game actions and I did.
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Post  Fenguard Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:26 am

Animayhem wrote:

I play on a server like that though your character no matter what the race has to have an approved bio and another you need to have approval or get enough noterity for your character to achieve it.
The secons oe I had asked one of the admins and they said I would have to have my character earn it by in game actions and I did.


I like the second method. It gives the person time to prove they're not just asses who want to pick on others as well as let's them prove they can RP good enough to earn a special character/subrace.
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Post  heather Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:54 am

not sure where these numbers are coming from at times.... I can think of a number of lycon characters but that's all the same player really if you wanted to count accurately by players who have one, think there are a few but some of those haven't been on too recently too again so not sure if they should count.... if it's looking like the population is too large just wait and watch to see if they stick around or have something come up, they may even go off to play different characters even too. it's probably not a good idea to just lump all players that have either of them into a numbered group, some might have other characters they want or even want to play more than that particular one, and at times everyone has at least 1 of every race sometimes too so then 100% of the server would be vampire or lycon if you go by that at some point...

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Post  Shar Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:27 pm

Just today i saw someone who didn't play a vamp previously, log in and say that there pc got turned into one. i am sorry but i am going to be frank here..

first off i love sub-races... so much so that without them i think that the game would quickly lose its appeal to me and i would simply stop playing. that being said, what is happening here is that a sub-race has become so vastly overabundant that it actually ruins RP. Recently i asked my cousin to take a look at this server, he's a very serious role-player much like myself but after i got a call back the response to this place was "this server is a joke, everyone is undead and the people who arnt, expect to turn into one". what am i supposed to say to that? how can i press for a server when i totally agree with them?

strangely he didn't mention the lycens being problematic (Strangely In my opinion at least). who knows, perhaps there numbers have subsided active player wise as i have only seen one in two days.

Still the problem is still here and only getting worse. instead of a suggestion i am placing this as a request. please, for the overall good of this server remove the ability of vampires to make more without a DM event involved.
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Post  Animayhem Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:41 pm

Shar wrote:Just today i saw someone who didn't play a vamp previously, log in and say that there pc got turned into one. i am sorry but i am going to be frank here..

first off i love sub-races... so much so that without them i think that the game would quickly lose its appeal to me and i would simply stop playing. that being said, what is happening here is that a sub-race has become so vastly overabundant that it actually ruins RP. Recently i asked my cousin to take a look at this server, he's a very serious role-player much like myself but after i got a call back the response to this place was "this server is a joke, everyone is undead and the people who arnt, expect to turn into one". what am i supposed to say to that? how can i press for a server when i totally agree with them?

strangely he didn't mention the lycens being problematic (Strangely In my opinion at least). who knows, perhaps there numbers have subsided active player wise as i have only seen one in two days.

Still the problem is still here and only getting worse. instead of a suggestion i am placing this as a request. please, for the overall good of this server remove the ability of vampires to make more without a DM event involved.

I agree that ability to turn people into Lycan or vamp should be tightly controlled dm approval of the target would have to have strong rp behind it as to why that particular PC. I play in a world where they do not have subraces but they do have assassins, however the assassination must be dm approved with decent rp to back it up and the target is given the opportunity to try and evade the attack and if they succeed the assassin is allowed to try it again. While this is going on a dm is present watching the scenario play out. Plus having the dm approval if any complaint by the victim, shows that was rp and not meta or power gaming.
This server is nice that it offers a variety of races to play and keep in mind many people play on pws to relax and forget about real life. Respect palyers choices. If they wanted to be a vamp or lycan they would have chosen it.
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Post  heather Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:57 pm

not sure about vampire numbers but I don't think they are that badly overpopulated.... if there is a serious concern about overpopulation we could start up a voluntary poll just to see what numbers we have for what for actual active characters and races.... i'm pretty sure that you'll find a majority of lycon or vampire might just be a player's alts rather than 20 players with it...

there's still the thing that some players might actually have accidentally caught these and might be seeking a cure too, shouldn't really count those into the actual real play number...

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Post  GM_ODA Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:01 pm

To Shar's post, I must reply :

Um, joke?!? Does your cousin always size up a 1337+ Area server in a single visit? Or a whole servers' population by the cross-section of the whole your cousin sees on a single visit? Will your cousin be on our Olympic Team this year in the Hastilly Jumping to Conclusions event? This is a post from a fellow who PMs me everyday to see if I have yet approved his own VERY EXOTIC custom "sub-race"? [We'll have a yes/no on that special sub-race request by the weekend btw.] I think you should caution your cousin away from 'snapshot based judgements' - have them run the tutorial - and explore a bit.*

In general, I have to point to Erin's earlier post in this thread regarding the controls we've built into the module to control overall numbers of contageous "sub-races" (specifically vampires and lycanthropes).

Further I would re-iterate WE ARE TESTING MANY SUB-RACES AND OUR WHOLE SUB-RACES SYSTEM expect to see all sorts here during this phase. At some later time, when we are done testing all these new sub-races we will access some additional requirements/restrictions upon their usage if we feel such are needed at that time. Note, some of you may want to create that exotic PC sub-race now while no restrictions on their creation are currently extant.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

* I know some of you like to create server-wide parties - be aware this can give people a very skewed idea of the RP on the server - using PARTY like some kind of PSYCHIC HOTLINE. I would encourage PCs adventuring together to PARTY but advise all that the other sort of usage is not conducive to RP - strangers can be overwhelmed by too much text; PARTY channels can be a flood of extraneous text clouding out important things new PLAYERS may need to read. If you invite others to visit this server, it may be best to login with them, create your own TINY PARTY and tour Noob U. together - discuss the features and what sort of PCs you might want to play here in light of the servers' features. This place has MUCH to offer and MORE still to offer when you invite your friends.
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Post  Animayhem Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:06 pm

GM_ODA wrote:

* I know some of you like to create server-wide parties - be aware this can give people a very skewed idea of the RP on the server - using PARTY like some kind of PSYCHIC HOTLINE. I would encourage PCs adventuring together to PARTY but advise all that the other sort of usage is not conducive to RP - strangers can be overwhelmed by too much text; PARTY channels can be a flood of extraneous text clouding out important things new PLAYERS may need to read. If you invite others to visit this server, it may be best to login with them, create your own TINY PARTY and tour Noob U. together - discuss the features and what sort of PCs you might want to play here in light of the servers' features. This place has MUCH to offer and MORE still to offer when you invite your friends.

I agree and have sometimes dropped out or even refused parties as it does get me sidetracked and I can sometimes talk more than I should and off my rp Very Happy I do not mind an occasional tell asking a question. If you wish me as a tour guide and I am not involved in rp you can always send me a tell in game.Razz

I do not mind going on adventures with peeps but depending on which of my characters are on will determine my speed to your area. Very Happy
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Post  GM_ODA Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:52 am

Shar wrote:Recently i asked my cousin to take a look at this server, he's a very serious role-player much like myself but after i got a call back the response to this place was "this server is a joke, everyone is undead and the people who arnt, expect to turn into one". what am i supposed to say to that? how can i press for a server when i totally agree with them?.

The first part implies, by the word 'recently' that little time has passed since you asked your cousin to visit the server, it would tend to be consistent with "one or few visits" by your cousin prior to the quotation indicating that this server is a 'joke'.

You then state that you "totally agree with them". Meanwhile, you are asking me to approve a character concept which is outrageously powerful and undead. It sure seems like you are fanning flames and playing both ends of the arguement... even to the point of sending me a PM in which you state you don't know how long your cousin was online. I won't re-assess my statement as all the indicators you give ("recently") lend themselves to a brief visit or visits and a hasty judgement of the server. You will note my suggestion was to tour with them through the tutorial - a suggestion which was ignored - there have been more than a few who, prior to running the tutorial, made similarly hasty and wrong judgements.

It seems like you are playing both ends of the arguement - advocating that we restrict use of some 'powerful undead' and all the while you are lobbying me to get a powerful undead PC for yourself. I will say it again, we are testing subraces, until we are done testing you will see elevated numbers of them on this server. If you "totally agree [that this server is a joke]" then why are you still here? If you totally agree then why did you invite your 'cousin' here? Do I smell troll? Why do you continue to press for what you denigrate us over others having - specifically a powerful undead race for your PC?

Be well. Game on.
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Post  Aurora Silverwolf Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:38 am

What you do not take into effect saying that the server is mostly this race or that race is that atm there are very few players on ... so if 80% were either lycan or vamp then that would be like 2-3 players

So don't base this on percentages alright? I personally think that yes all subraces should be approved by either Admin or DM after being requested with a reason on the forums. This will basically take care of those wanting to play these races just for the "stats"

Now I for one enjoy playing lycan .. but I also play vamps. I even have a succubus and one toon that was turned into a baatezu by that evil mushroom. Now I have a few more lycans because I did use them to test out some various things for the beta scripts. So far they are working well. I even have a few "natural" born lycans ..

That being said I like diversity .. but I also do not mind making a toon to help Eri and Daht test out new subraces and scripts to work out the bugs inherent to all new things Smile

The idea of having to request a subrace is a good thing however .. it does not run off players but encourages them to plead their case for wanting a special subrace.

But since we have such a low player base atm I think we really do want to encourage new players to come to the server and try out all the new and unique subraces and systems we offer on the server. Once the server is out of beta testing then perhaps the limits and application system can be put into play?

~Nightshade (Aurora)



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Post  Animayhem Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:22 pm

I agree that the low player base can skew numbers. Yes this is beta and encouraging testing of various races good but the problem I think Shar is alluding to, is players maybe choose a subrace but do not take the time to really explore it and if they run into a problem they forget and start over. So you have the server vault filled with unplayed characters possibly because some of these may not really be rpers just here to build a character they can't elsewhere. It can be frustrating to start rp with these individuals then they vanish and appear as another not bringing back the first.

Even though it is beta, I think some restrictions should be in place to get more accurate data.
Animayhem
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