Modification of Planar Turning?

I hereby want to recommend a change of the talent planar turning or possibilities to boost the required stats to aqquire it.

As for the reason, planar turning makes a Paladin, or Champion of Torm able to turn Outsiders like Undead, that is a good talent, yet you have to be of epic level *21 of the divine class* and you have to have 25 Charisma AND 25 Wisdom.

The problem with it is, if you want to gain 25 Charisma and 25 Wisdom, you would have to make that divine character completely and only concentrated on both those stats, including using almost all of the epic talent points on stat boosting talents.
Every other stat would have to be on 8, it would much likely render the character useless in most terms but charismatic or wisdom based actions, which are not THAT typical for Paladins or Champions of Torm, who are mostly those who stand first in line when you take the enemy headon.

So my personal recommendation is either to have this stat being pickable for Paladin, Champion of Torm or Cleric above level 20 with a charisma of 25 OR 25 wisdom, another thought would be to have this talent on a ring to add to the characters talents or to make these divine classes able to quest for additional charisma and wisdom points. like 1 point per 5 levels, yet that last way would also influence more than just the ability to GET the talent but also other interactinos.

I'd like to hear your thoughts about that, including the DM's opinions.

See ya, be well, game on!
Oliver

I dont see an issue with having it be 25 Cha OR Wis... But i thought it already was, which shows how many pallys i play. the only problem i could see is if it were hardcoded into the game.

What, no more interest, noone having an opinion to this? Players can post their opinions on this aswell!

Shar wrote:I dont see an issue with having it be 25 Cha OR Wis... But i thought it already was, which shows how many pallys i play. the only problem i could see is if it were hardcoded into the game.

If you're talkin' about Turn Undead, I'm fairly sure it's hardcoded.

Planar turning is an addition to turn undead indeed, it makes turn undead affect planar creatures aswell.

It is doable. I play on a pw where my character took the earth domain as a second and can turn elementals undead as well as undead.
They are a Mystic Theurge which has 5 levels cleric (master of battle and earth domain), 5 sorcy and 10 Mystic Theruge. I have access to level 7 sorcy spells and level 8 cleric. Charis 17 and wisdom 18

well, first of all, i personally think planar turning was meant for characters who are focused on turning. i don't see paladins or ct's in that light -- 'clerics are the ones who focus on turning' -- but admittedly, that's my own personal bias.

2nd, it's definitely possible to create a viable character w/planar turning -- be it a cleric, a paladin or a c-o-t -- and w/o gimping it. it's true, you have to spend lots of epic feats on the 'great ...'s, but it can work, and you can build the character to favor one other stat as well [str, for example, to get divine shield / divine might; int to get improved kd / improved disarm / etc. ; or dex to get the 'dodge' tree] -- and that's using just the standard races. this server has an aasimar race, and running an aasimar turner would free up 4 epic feats or give you 8 more points to distribute to other ability stats.

but even though it's possible to create a viable character w/o gimping it, such a character wouldn't be as strong as other characters who can focus on a single stat. and even these 'non-gimped' versions, while basically viable, wouldn't get planar turning until at least 36th lvl.

one interesting thing for me is the difference betw pnp and nwn -

SRD v.3.5 wrote:The character can turn or rebuke outsiders as if they were undead. An outsider has effective turn resistance equal to half its spell resistance (round down). If the character can turn undead, he or she turns (or destroys) all evil outsiders and rebukes (or commands) all nonevil outsiders. If the character can rebuke undead, he or she rebukes (or commands) all evil outsiders and turns (or destroys) all nonevil outsiders.

notice that it says 'outsiders', as in, all outsiders. there are two basic problems w/vanilla nwn - 1, it doesn't allow commanding/rebuking undead [and by extension commanding outsiders, if the pc has planar turning], and 2- there just aren't that many outsiders in the game, right out of the box. the way the feat is designed in pnp, this is a very powerful feat to have, so it makes sense that the requirements be high. being a noob here on AR, i don't know enough about this server to know whether or not the clerical turning feat has been tinkered with, but if it can rebuke undead along the lines of pnp, and/or if there are lots of outsiders on this pw, then imho it should be hard to get the planar turning feat. if, otoh, things are pretty vanilla, then i'd say the price is too high. personally, i've always considered this feat not at all worth the cost, in out-of-the-box nwn.

BTW, if you just want to turn outsiders, why not consider the good or evil domains?

To your question Exkilter, simply one thing.
Because its a damn Paladin and no Cleric!

Now, anymore considerations of this?
GM_ODA any opinion on this?
I believe the stat should be able to have for people with charisma 25 or wisdom 25 not both. I mean, things like devastating critical cost LESS over the time to get and are lethal for almost any enemy who has NO immunity against critical.
While Planar turning is only either rebuking outsiders, or destroying them if their level and/or spell resistance fails.