More on Rogue PCs

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More on Rogue PCs

Post  Roger_Dodger on Sun May 10, 2015 3:58 pm

Suggestion: I always thought Rogues were getting cheated when using their Thiefly abilities. Rogues should be awarded XP for successful ability use, as in Opening locks, Disabling/Recovering/Flagging Traps, etc. Perhaps there is a way to award the Rogue XP == DC (of lock/trap) -10. I suggest the -10 because any PC can assign a '1' to his abilities, when leveling up, for Open Lock or Disable Trap and be able to open/disable any 'cheap' item (DC == 10 or less). 'Bashing' to Open or Disable awards no XP, or maybe even a penalty. I have experimented with this (scripting) on my own, but have been unable to make it work due to my lack of scripting ability (even with Lilac Soul's help).

There is a scripting function "int 'GetLockUnlockDC' (object oObject)"along with the function "object oLastOpener = 'GetLastOpener()'" that could be a good starting place. Some of the time, just getting the treasure out of the chest is reward enough, but if the PC is working with a Party, he is expected to divvy up the treasure (just common courtesy here). Not to mention, specialists 'should' be given a little extra for using their skills.

It never made much logical sense to me (in the OC) to go through the hassle of Opening/Disabling a high DC Lock/Trap only to find 5 GP within. The heavier the Locks/Traps, the greater the 'treasure' within makes more sense. Of course, 'Bashing' open such a chest would 'destroy' any high-level treasure, leaving only a few gold pieces (exception: Plot Items).

What do the rest of you Rogue-types think?
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Re: More on Rogue PCs

Post  GM_ODA on Mon May 11, 2015 7:15 am

Friend Roger_Dodger,
I've occasionally thought about breakage of things. D&D had some lovely material based saving throw tables with columns on type of damage dealt too - I may have to dredge that up and apply it to some existing scripts in game already - this would accommodate any rough handling and reward those who gain items from containers by finesse more so than by brute force.

I'll run this past Eriniel and if she concurs it will be a fun exercise for me in scripting.


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Re: More on Rogue PCs

Post  Ragdoll_Knight on Mon May 11, 2015 12:31 pm

I second the exp idea, with maybe a 100 xp bonus for each lock the first time, then the DC for each time after.
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Re: More on Rogue PCs

Post  GM_ODA on Mon May 11, 2015 3:38 pm

ATM it is setup thusly:

If a ROGUE EXAMINES a trap first, (cannot be his own trap) and then successfully disarms it, the ROGUE gets some XP.

Eriniel tells me she will add a system to award modest XP for ROGUES who successfully pick locks (likely in a similar way).




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Observations and Suggestions

Post  Roger_Dodger on Mon May 11, 2015 6:30 pm

GM_ODA wrote:ATM it is setup thusly:

If a ROGUE EXAMINES a trap first, (cannot be his own trap) and then successfully disarms it, the ROGUE gets some XP.

Eriniel tells me she will add a system to award modest XP for ROGUES who successfully pick locks (likely in a similar way).


I took several hours yesterday in the Rogue's section of Noob U. Most of the 'skills tests' were excellent, but I do have a few 'beefs' about some of it, as well as suggestions for improvement. Never beef about something without offering a suggestion for improvement.

First - Just to get to the 'Rogue Area' I had to use 'Climbing Skills' one way or the other. GREAT IDEA! Skills should be gained by practice! Perfectly logical, in my mind. Climbing by rope is very strenuous in RL, and should be strenuous ingame for best effect. BUT . . . Climbing became more of a form of torture than practice. Fatigue penalty is a good way to simulate this, but I got so wiped out after only one rope climb, I could hardly move. Perhaps using the emote wand to 'Meditate' for awhile, or just sit down and catch my breath would do. Anyway, faster 'recovery' in some way would be a boon.

Speaking of Climbing - Every time I used the 'ferns' to climb a cliff, I got so cut up that I had to stop and bandage (or bleed to death), usually losing more than half my hit points in the process. If I used another 'fern' before I had fully healed, I would DIE! Sure, mountain climbing or Cliff Hanging is inherently dangerous (just ask Sylvester Stallone), but, really, give me a break. Surely there aren't broken beer bottles at the top of EVERY cliff in this world. Sure, there should be a 'percentage roll' for getting hurt climbing, but it should be a very small percentage, and the percentage 'should' go down with practice (never all the way to 0%. $*it happens, right?). Also, I tried using the 'Climb Tool' several times, but I guess I couldn't figger out how it worked. Anyway, there was 'no effect' observable when using it, and no activation menu either. Am I missing something here??

OK, into the first Rogue area. This seemed to be a form of 'Observation Skills' test (Spot/Listen/Detect). BTW, my Rogue PC never enters a dungeon without at least 'Detect' activated and/or 'Move Silent' as well. I did pretty well in this area, detecting the detectable and even 'hearing' voices (Listen Skill) behind the door that was blocked by boulders. Then, the Boulders!!! I could neither move them, bash them or 'find a passage' between them (using the RuneStones). I finally had to give up on this one after 1/2 hour of trying everything I could think of. OK, a little help here?? What's the secret??

Into the second Rogue area (Trapland). This area was really a hoot! Lots of great and never-seen-before thingies to play with (OK, practice). I especially liked the two-part traps - a novel experience. When I first started playing NWN (back in version 1.24), I used to scope out (examine) ALL traps. All I ever got was, 'A bunch of gears and levers' description, so I quit 'looking' and just went to work disabling the trap. It didn't take long to figure out that this wasn't wise in this world - especially with the two-part traps. For all Noobies even more Noobie than me: After 'examining' the trap, look in the right-hand text box at the bottom of the screen. That's where you'll find the complete description, otherwise you get the generic 'gears and levers' message as usual. Also, after 'examining', Part 2 of the trap lights up (red), a real 'plus' for us Rogues. One more thing as noted by GM_ODA above - You get XP for the trap disarm ONLY IF you first examine it. Thanks for that GM_ODA!!

The only real 'beef' with this area is that the designers seem to have forgotten that the Rogue PCs will be LOW LEVEL (like LVL 1-4). I got blown away a couple of times by very deadly traps, all the way back to the 'Start' area (OH NO! More 'climbing' to get back). Practicing Skills should NEVER involve Deadly traps. Not to say that if your Rogue PC screws up (usually called an 'Oops') he shouldn't get punished. Call it 'Carrot and Stick', 'Truth or Consequences' or whatever. No one ever said Adventuring is safe - it isn't. But, practice is practice. No Deadly Traps, PLEASE! Especially for Lower Levels.

A little off the subject about another area: Scrounging area for Herbs and Hunting.
First off: A Rogue can't use the Miner's Picks (either one) or the Woodsman's Axe. Only the Small Axe (hatchet?) is usable by Rogues. It seems that all of these 'Tools' are classified as 'Weapons' (as indeed, they should be), and subject to Class Restrictions (without appropriate abilities). Some of the things in the area that can be scrounged (like the iron ore) have to involve the restricted Tools. I did manage to get some nuts and leaves (now I have to learn how to use them). I did find lots of tracks, but never did see anything I could kill and eat. Gee, if I had to depend on my woodman's skills to survive, I guess I would starve to death. (Note to self: PRACTICE).

Combat area: Also need more practice. Laughing I did earn 400 XP for practicing with bow, sling, short sword and the little ax I got from the Scrounging area.

Another Note to Self: Buy a horse or donkey to carry all that stuff. Camping gear, weapons, armor, extra food, etc, etc, all weigh 'something', and a lot of little 'somethings' add up to getting Encumbered rather quickly. "A Horse, a Horse, my kingdom for a Horse" (Richard III).

Gaming on . . .
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